X-Fi CMSS-3D Headphone - Page 15

Postalisback · 09-02-2011, 03:18 | posts: 3,569 | Location: pualuiɟ

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenClaymore

I don't know if this was already mention in this thread since this thread is very old.

Some reason headphone mode effect the sound stage of headphones that are open back and have a large sound stage. It makes their sound stage smaller from some reason.

I found the same thing when I had a pair of Sennheiser HD 595 running out of an Auzentech X-Fi Prelude, which is why I just left it in 2/2.1 speakers mode, sounded much better to me.

Crow550 · 09-02-2011, 03:25 | posts: 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postalisback

I found the same thing when I had a pair of Sennheiser HD 595 running out of an Auzentech X-Fi Prelude, which is why I just left it in 2/2.1 speakers mode, sounded much better to me.

Okay so....For the best Headphone surround experience.

Set Speakers to 2.1 in Gaming mode and set CMSS-3D to both on AUTO. Should Windows Speakers on Stereo be selected on full range too?

Then set the Windows Speakers to 7.1 with full range ticked and Subwoofer unticked? *When the Speakers are set to 2.1 in Gaming mode & the Windows speakers is set to 7.1 the Gaming mode changes to 7.1. Unless you leave Windows Speakers on Stereo?*

Correct?

Check the bottom of page 14 for other questions I asked.

TheHunter · 09-02-2011, 03:43 | posts: 13,439 | Location: √╥²

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crow550

Okay so....For the best Headphone surround experience.

Set Speakers to 2.1 in Gaming mode and set CMSS-3D to both on AUTO.

Then set the Windows Speakers to 7.1 with full range ticked and Subwoofer unticked? *When the Speakers are set to 2.1 in Gaming mode & the Windows speakers is set to 7.1 the Gaming mode changes to 7.1. Unless you leave Windows Speakers on Stereo?*

Correct?

Check the bottom of page 14 for other questions I asked.

no then you lose this CMSS-3d headphone effect completely.

in game mode use headphones and then in windows volume panel either 5.1 or 7.1., 2.1 is ok too, but i prefer more expanded sound with 5.1 or even better with 7.1 ( i noticed the diff, in cod5).

For 2.1 vs 5.1 in windows vol panel, that will change only if you enabled in creative cpl sync with "windows volume panel". If you uncheck it it will be separate.

Crow550 · 09-02-2011, 06:47 | posts: 22

Browsing through 15 pages of this.

I am just trying to figure out what is the optimal surround sound experience for headphones.

Also to help others out. Let's discuss and try different things out and get this figured out.

From what I can gather..... Windows speakers to full range on 7.1 with Subwoofer unchecked or should it be checked?

X-FI game settings should be set to Headphones & CMSS-3D both on AUTO.

Should SVM be ticked or not?

What about Bass boost?

Should the Dolby & DTS settings be altered? Like Pro-Logic set to ON? What about +4 gain?

What about switching to Headphones & 2.1 Speakers? Can I just leave it on Headphones for 2.1 Speakers or should I switch to 2.1 then switch to Headphones and do the 7.1 Windows speaker thing every time and restart before using them?

Crow550 · 09-02-2011, 11:54 | posts: 22

Someone also said it is best to change the Default Format from 24bit, 48000 Hz to 16bit, 48000 Hz for some games audio effects to work better?

TheHunter · *Last edited by TheHunter; 09-02-2011 at 16:55.*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crow550

Browsing through 15 pages of this.

I am just trying to figure out what is the optimal surround sound experience for headphones.

Also to help others out. Let's discuss and try different things out and get this figured out.

From what I can gather..... Windows speakers to full range on 7.1 with Subwoofer unchecked or should it be checked?

X-FI game settings should be set to Headphones & CMSS-3D both on AUTO.

Should SVM be ticked or not?

What about Bass boost?

Should the Dolby & DTS settings be altered? Like Pro-Logic set to ON? What about +4 gain?

What about switching to Headphones & 2.1 Speakers? Can I just leave it on Headphones for 2.1 Speakers or should I switch to 2.1 then switch to Headphones and do the 7.1 Windows speaker thing every time and restart before using them?

yes you can enable full range (if you notice any difference)
- yes headphones mode + cmss3d (both at auto) + 5.1 or 7.1 in win.volume cpl.

-SVM disabled.
-Bass boost disabled.
-leave DTS, dolby etc alone

- the last thing yes you will have to do that every time, especially if you use game mode with headphones and then switch to entertainment mode.. Idk it could be that driver overcomes this and auto switches to the last known mode for example entertainment mode (2.1 + 90% volume) and when you switch back to game mode it stays in headphones mode (50% volume)..

But this is not the case for me. I have to first switch back to 2.1 before i change to other audio mode or it will lower(keep 50%) audio volume (for headphones); but yes it will stay in 2.1 at entertainment mode or when i switch back to game mode in headphones mode, but in both cases with the same volume 50%.

Crow550 · 09-02-2011, 21:13 | posts: 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHunter

yes you can enable full range (if you notice any difference)
- yes headphones mode + cmss3d (both at auto) + 5.1 or 7.1 in win.volume cpl.

-SVM disabled.
-Bass boost disabled.
-leave DTS, dolby etc alone

- the last thing yes you will have to do that every time, especially if you use game mode with headphones and then switch to entertainment mode.. Idk it could be that driver overcomes this and auto switches to the last known mode for example entertainment mode (2.1 + 90% volume) and when you switch back to game mode it stays in headphones mode (50% volume)..

But this is not the case for me. I have to first switch back to 2.1 before i change to other audio mode or it will lower(keep 50%) audio volume (for headphones); but yes it will stay in 2.1 at entertainment mode or when i switch back to game mode in headphones mode, but in both cases with the same volume 50%.

So do you leave Subwoofer ticked or unticked in the 7.1 setup? If you don't know try it and see if you hear a difference.

Anarion · 09-02-2011, 21:51 | posts: 9,166 | Location: Finland

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crow550

So then tick full range and untick Subwoofer then?

So CMSS-3D on auto then.

So you keep the Speakers in Stereo with full range ticked & set games to 7.1 or 5.1? Or some Games on Stereo and Speakers on 7.1?

Also I thought most games work best in Stereo while some work better in 5.1/7.1? According to Grahf back on page 4.

I use stereo. If I use Alchemy I select 5.1 or 7.1 if there's option. Setting 5.1 or 7.1 in Windows audio CP just ruins the audio in my opinion.

Crow550 · 09-02-2011, 22:09 | posts: 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarion

I use stereo. If I use Alchemy I select 5.1 or 7.1 if there's option. Setting 5.1 or 7.1 in Windows audio CP just ruins the audio in my opinion.

Do you tick Full range on the Stereo speakers?

Trying to sort through these options and see what sounds best.

Anarion · 09-02-2011, 23:03 | posts: 9,166 | Location: Finland

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crow550

Do you tick Full range on the Stereo speakers?

Trying to sort through these options and see what sounds best.

I do.

Crow550 · 09-02-2011, 23:22 | posts: 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarion

I do.

I don't quite get it. The full range option shows big Speakers. So if you have small speakers or Headphones shouldn't it be ticked off?

Crow550 · 09-03-2011, 02:37 | posts: 22

This is such a mess. Some people say set Windows speakers to 7.1 others say leave it on Stereo and set some games to 7.1. Then there is the to set Full range or not set Full range issue....Plus do you keep the subwoofer ticked if you do use 7.1? Ugh just a mess of opinions going on here!

Let's try different options out and get to the bottom of this. Once & for all. Let's discuss and get this figured out.

Please read my other unanswered questions I posted previously.

Radical_53 · 09-03-2011, 08:49 | posts: 2,256 | Location: Germany

Well, one thing should be pretty clear: You need to have Windows and the game set to multiple speakers in order to make use of CMSS-3D. It also makes sense to use the full-band speaker setting here in order to pass through all the possible information from the game to windows on to the card itself.
Some people seem to prefer to set the card to headphones, some like 2.1 speakers here better. I prefer the headphones setting which may have to do with the built-in headphone amp of my card (in 2.1 setting the card tries to drive my headphones like a regular sized speaker).

What I'm not entirely sure about is macro fx and elevation filter. I used "on" for both quite a while now but I'm going to try the elevation filter on "auto" now. Maybe it makes a difference, who knows.

ROBSCIX · 09-03-2011, 16:59 | posts: 16,079 | Location: Guru3D Audio Lab

Yes the idea is to set the game and windows to surround sound and then let the card down mix to headphones using CMSS-3D.

Crow550 · 09-06-2011, 01:54 | posts: 22

On the Windows speaker default format setting. Since my Xtreme Music X-FI 24 bit Crystalizer converts audio to 24bit/96khz Surround and 24bit/192khz for Stereo. You'd want to set it to 24bit/96khz.

Now whether you can notice a difference is debatable. Only one game gives me issues & I have to change it to 24bit/48khz & that's Dead Rising 2. Stupid console ports.

To me it sounds punchier on 24bit/96khz compared to 16bit/48khz.

Now Whether to set it to 96khz or 192khz is another topic....

I know 24 bit Crystalizer doesn't make the audio real 24bit but depending on the source can make it better. I usually keep it on 50%. Sometimes 100% if the game is older like Half-Life 1. The more compressed the audio the higher the setting. IMO.

Crow550 · 09-06-2011, 02:26 | posts: 22

I set my main PC volume to 67% making the left & right channel 50% & use the volume slider on my headphones to adjust.

Keep the volume in games up to 100%. A few older games on 50% because they will crash?

Crow550 · 09-06-2011, 11:55 | posts: 22

Been using Windows Speakers on 7.1 (with Subwoofer ticked) with full range and default format on 24bit/96khz for a week.

Now gonna try Windows Speakers on Stereo with full range with default format on 24bit/192khz for a week.

Will test games in stereo and 5.1 or 7.1 if option available and see if I notice a difference.

To figure out what is the best in Headphone surround.

GPU · 09-06-2011, 16:22 | posts: 327 | Location: Canada

thanks for your efforts Crow

Crow550 · 09-06-2011, 19:57 | posts: 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPU

thanks for your efforts Crow

Just trying to get to the bottom of this. One person will say one thing and another will say something else.

I know different people have different configs.

I will also add I have the CMSS-3D settings on Auto, Crystalizer on 50% & no EQ enabled. No Bass boost enabled and all the sliders in the Mixer at 50%.
SVM is not enabled either.

So if anyone wants to follow along with me you are welcome too.

Crow550 · 09-06-2011, 22:53 | posts: 22

I did some further research & since the Crystalizer only seems to up-convert audio to 24bit/96khz I will be doing this week test with the default format on 24bit/96khz.

Radical_53 · 09-07-2011, 08:51 | posts: 2,256 | Location: Germany

The Crystalizer shouldn't have anything to do with the upsampling itself normally. "Normally" upsampling should happen as soon as you choose one of the higher settings (above 16-bit, 44.1kHz) and have a "lower resolution" file.

Crow550 · 09-07-2011, 10:25 | posts: 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radical_53

The Crystalizer shouldn't have anything to do with the upsampling itself normally. "Normally" upsampling should happen as soon as you choose one of the higher settings (above 16-bit, 44.1kHz) and have a "lower resolution" file.

According to this: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/General...er-and-Testing

"The X-Fi leverages its ability to up-convert signals to 24-bit / 96 kHz by providing a feature called "24-bit Crystalizer". Since not every input signal is 24-bit (i.e. CDs and MP3s are 16-bit), the extra bits added during the upconversion gives the X-Fi an extra bits of audio to play with per piece of data. For example, a 16-bit sample has an extra 8 bits of information for a total of 24-bits. With these extra 8 bits, Creative uses a process to enhance the audio to make bass sound deeper, or bullets a bit more punchy. The catch here is that the sound card needs to be able to intelligently detect these instances and apply the appropriate effect. Otherwise those 8 bits just go to waste. "

Radical_53 · 09-07-2011, 10:33 | posts: 2,256 | Location: Germany

If that's actually true it might be worth a try. The first things I heard and read about it reminded me of the typical "bathtub" many people seem to be searching for.

Crow550 · 09-08-2011, 01:05 | posts: 22

So far with testing....

5.1 & 7.1 Windows Speaker settings seems to be very minor in any difference. Most games like 5.1 it seems.

I can't really tell a different between Stereo & 5.1 in Windows speaker settings and setting 5.1 in say Left4Dead 2?

Now playing Left4Dead 2 with 5.1/7.1 & Stereo or Headphones settings in game.... Maybe a little difference?

No lack of surround seems to occur when setting other games from Stereo or 5.1. So I assume it does take the 5 or 7 channels and convert them to stereo then separates them to surround in the headphones.

Now how much of a difference does it make the game being 5.1 or 7.1 or Stereo that's being separated to surround for headphones seems to be minor....

If anyone wants to use the similar settings I am using as I have said in previous posts and want to post thoughts. That would be cool too.

Also the difference they hear with CMSS-3D setting being on Auto & On too.

Radical_53 · 09-08-2011, 08:14 | posts: 2,256 | Location: Germany

With a normal game you'd have two options:
If you set the game to stereo you'd get surround sound emulation from the game itself if it supports that feature.
If you have Windows and the game set at 5.1/7.1 and your card on headphones the card will do that emulation through CMSS-3D.
The differences may be subtle or huge, depending on the games' sound engine quality.