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This truely sucks. (Ati slows down furmark)
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MetalFox
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Default This truely sucks. (Ati slows down furmark) - 08-27-2008, 16:44 | posts: 907 | Location: Finland

http://en.expreview.com/2008/08/26/a...it-run-slower/

Oh yeah, I'd call it a virus nice job! Nice way to try to tape the bad cooler and low rpm's to fix everything magically!

Well what do you think about this? I'd go so far that I'm a bit worried about this product, what about in the future some game is so gpu intensive they would do the same and slow it down to prevent heat... that's frikking funny.

What a joke!

Anyhow you can fix the card by using aftermarket bios or modifying it by yourself, but fixing product shouldn't be the buyers job.

Let's see how this unfolds.

Last edited by MetalFox; 08-27-2008 at 17:14.
   
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drouge
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Default 08-27-2008, 17:48 | posts: 433 | Location: on the edge

Same thing on cat 8.54

So 8.54 must be cat 8.9 beta?
   
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Default 08-27-2008, 21:20 | posts: 11,751 | Location: new jersey

well i sent my 48x2 back i paid way to much for this software....the hardware i like thuo
   
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Default 08-27-2008, 21:40 | posts: 238 | Location: Planet Earth & Camping On The Moon

I have to say that is just pitiful. What are they doing to themselves? Seems like to me a better cooling solution is in order here after reading that garbage. Does AMD/ATI have developer with earned their degrees or did they buy them from an offer of spam email? People don't want less performance they want something that is flexible and working straight from the package.
   
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Default 08-27-2008, 21:54 | posts: 17 | Location: WY, USA

I guess I didn't really understand the article.

So they're saying there's more potention to these cards than ATI is letting on?

I don't see what the problem with that is, honestly. If they're still faster than the competing nVidia card, why should it matter?

All this means is that you can rename .exe files you can "unlock" the higher potential of your card and in turn melt it?

As long as the games we get 100fps in, while the nVidia cards are getting 95fps in same aren't suddenly being limited to 60fps then it shouldn't really matter what measures ATI takes to keep the cards from melting themselves.

I guess my opinion is that as long as the performance is as advertised I won't be worrying about some sort of "unlockable" aspect to my card to make the FPS jump.

Just my 2 cents, and you can correct me if I have misunderstood the written article!
   
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MetalFox
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Default 08-28-2008, 00:34 | posts: 907 | Location: Finland

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egregious View Post
I guess I didn't really understand the article.

So they're saying there's more potention to these cards than ATI is letting on?

I don't see what the problem with that is, honestly. If they're still faster than the competing nVidia card, why should it matter?

All this means is that you can rename .exe files you can "unlock" the higher potential of your card and in turn melt it?

As long as the games we get 100fps in, while the nVidia cards are getting 95fps in same aren't suddenly being limited to 60fps then it shouldn't really matter what measures ATI takes to keep the cards from melting themselves.

I guess my opinion is that as long as the performance is as advertised I won't be worrying about some sort of "unlockable" aspect to my card to make the FPS jump.

Just my 2 cents, and you can correct me if I have misunderstood the written article!
Nope, it the thing slows down 50% only in furmark. It might be bad optimization perhaps, would not be new. Anyhow this proves that the stock cooler is way too weak for the card, the design is a bit flawed, it can be fixed trough modifying but that's not the buyers job.

Of course I'm buying a accelero rev.2 to this thing, but well you all get the point.
   
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Dr. Vodka
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Default 08-28-2008, 01:28 | posts: 3,802 | Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

They deliberately "optimize" their driver to make furmark not stress their GPUs that much, because there have been reports of furmark killing HD4800 cards because of the heat (as you can see, nearly 100°C sustained aren't good for the card's health). If you rename furmark.exe to something else, this "optimization" goes away and the bench runs at full throttle.

I checked this yesterday, got the same results. AS5 + stock cooler 40% fan.

Furmark.exe: 79° max, 36 FPS avg


renamed.exe: 94° max, 66 FPS avg


If I set the fan at 65% the temps with the renamed furmark go down at about 76°C, more than healthy for a 4850. I'll be buying an accelero S1 soon... as summer is approaching here in Argentina, I don't want my GFX to die from extreme heat while gaming, specially with so many games coming out the following 3 months. I also don't want to lose some hearing because of the high pitched sound of the stock fan, too.
   
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Default 08-28-2008, 02:00 | posts: 3,048

Before you start tossing around completely unsubstantiated claims, how can you be sure they purposely wanted to slow down furmark. For all you know someone was testing something and forgot to put it back.

I'm not saying your wrong, ATI and Nvidia have done worse things, but why not ask ATI? Instead of just running your mouth before you've even looked into it.
   
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Dr. Vodka
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Default 08-28-2008, 02:14 | posts: 3,802 | Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

I can't see another excuse for this, they want their cards with 10% fan speeds to survive furmark's heat, so they on purpose did this.

This is explained by renaming furmark to something else, I can hear my card work much harder, the VRMs are really working at full speed with the renamed furmark, the other way around they sound as if they were almost idle. You know, the high pitched noise coming from these GFX cards.. if you for example change some game's .exe name to furmark, it'll slow down too, as it loses its optimizations AND furmark's driver settings kick in. The only difference being furmark is optimized for lower performance, ergo lower heat. This must be on purpose. They just won't cap their cards' performance on a benchmark by mistake, of course they wouldn't do that. Such thinking is exactly the opposite to what they'd usually do, improve performance.

My "theory" has a good start, don't you think? I've looked into this, and I have hard proof on this thing. The strange behaviour is there, and this is the most probable explanation. I'm not that kind of guy who says things before having read about them; of course I'd love to hear what AMD has to say about this.

Anyway, as long as they don't mess with game performance, and pull a GFFX-like driver optimization out of their hat, it's alright.

Last edited by Dr. Vodka; 08-28-2008 at 14:38.
   
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sutyi
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Default 08-28-2008, 08:29 | posts: 106 | Location: Budaörs, Hungary.

Tried this out, works the same either way @ me.
   
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Default 08-28-2008, 09:27 | posts: 3,648 | Location: Poland

I am using 8.8 and renaming doesnt changed anything.

73C Full load with 39% FAN, damn my HD4870 is cooler than my old 8800GTS witch was goign up to 84C
   
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Default 08-28-2008, 10:05 | posts: 5,072 | Location: England

i hope this is only on ati cards but that does seem wierd.
   
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Default 08-28-2008, 21:59 | posts: 3,048

I find it unlikely they would do this for any reason that "tries" to make their card look better. They know this is a fairly known benchmark. People are going to notice FPS drops, especially of almost half. They know this, they also know what's happened in the past when a company makes an "optimization" like this. I just find it unlikely that it is on purpose, or to make themselves look better.

Let's be honest, if they wanted, they could just update the driver with new fan speeds, instead of slowing this one program down.
   
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Default 08-29-2008, 04:03 | posts: 3,718 | Location: Searching for more light...

I'm guessing that none of you have ever renamed a game .exe to something else for any reason whatsoever...right?

A lot of games aren't properly coded to utilize Crossfire right, so renaming the .exe to a 'known' program that uses Crossfire properly will indeed unleash the potential of the X2 cards.

Wow...I thought that was common knowledge - this isn't an attempt by ATi to screw their card's performance - think about that for a second...what purpose would dropping benchmark scores on their flagship cards do for them and their reputation considering it's up against the biggest, baddest nVidia card??? NONE, NOTHING...it's not their intention, it's the poorly written code in some benches and games that causes this, not a conspiracy from ATi!!!
Psychlone
   
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Default 08-29-2008, 06:40 | posts: 4,212 | Location: Europe/Slovenia/Ljubljana

Lol. When they "cheat" to gain higher scores in benches they complain, when you slow it down, they all jump up again and complain even more.
Yeah sure, better cooling and another 20-30 eur to the price. Why? So you can run some freakin dumb FurMark? Give me a break. Stock cooling does it's job just fine for job intended. FurMark was specifically designed to torture graphic cards beyond anything ANY game wil ever do. Not even Crysis loads graphic cards as much and it's the most demanding game there is.
   
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Default 08-29-2008, 08:11 | posts: 1,887 | Location: Réunion

@RejZoR: I concur.
   
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Default 08-29-2008, 08:42 | posts: 343 | Location: Denton, TX

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaroDaBeast View Post
@RejZoR: I concur.
Agreed.
   
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Default 08-29-2008, 09:26 | posts: 4,881 | Location: South Dakota

Quote:
Originally Posted by RejZoR View Post
Lol. When they "cheat" to gain higher scores in benches they complain, when you slow it down, they all jump up again and complain even more.
Yeah sure, better cooling and another 20-30 eur to the price. Why? So you can run some freakin dumb FurMark? Give me a break. Stock cooling does it's job just fine for job intended. FurMark was specifically designed to torture graphic cards beyond anything ANY game wil ever do. Not even Crysis loads graphic cards as much and it's the most demanding game there is.
Thus sayeth the trutheth...

(same for Psychlone too)
   
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Default 08-29-2008, 11:12 | posts: 485 | Location: United Kingdom

While it is annoying, who plays benchmarks? I will be annoyed though it it affects all OGL games.
   
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Default 08-29-2008, 11:39 | posts: 1,245 | Location: Sweden

Thats just unacceptable. I would RMA a card that had those kind of problems.
A graphics card should be able to run "any" application without getting damaged or overheated when running on factory specs. If you can not it is unacceptable and you should get your money back.
   
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RejZoR
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Default 08-29-2008, 12:00 | posts: 4,212 | Location: Europe/Slovenia/Ljubljana

AMD's definition of ANY application means any game. Not ANY stupid torture app.
If anyone can show me any kind of actual game that stresses graphic card as much as FurMark i'll buy him a cookie. Hell whole bag of them. 500 kilo one...

Oh and just for info. My card cannot withstand FurMark properly either and i'm using aftermarket cooling, Zalman VF-900. It's not on the level of Accelero but still far superior to stock cooling. Should i complain to Zalman because they have crappy coolers? No, because there is not a single game that VF-900 cannot handle.
   
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Default 08-29-2008, 12:01 | posts: 10,522 | Location: Finland

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Thats just unacceptable. I would RMA a card that had those kind of problems.
A graphics card should be able to run "any" application without getting damaged or overheated when running on factory specs. If you can not it is unacceptable and you should get your money back.
I think that's actually a fine reason for RMA'ing the card since it is actually broken. Just imagine any software that would make similar load on GPU and the card would be useless.
   
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WaroDaBeast
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Default 08-29-2008, 12:04 | posts: 1,887 | Location: Réunion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stukov View Post
Thus sayeth the trutheth...

(same for Psychlone too)
Quote:
Thus spake RejZoR.
There, fixed it for ya.
   
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RejZoR
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Default 08-29-2008, 12:15 | posts: 4,212 | Location: Europe/Slovenia/Ljubljana

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
I think that's actually a fine reason for RMA'ing the card since it is actually broken. Just imagine any software that would make similar load on GPU and the card would be useless.
IF the cookie would be a monster the IF would eat the cookie. IF IF IF IF.
Show me such application (thats not called FurMark) and i'll believe you guys...
If Crysis cannot put more load on GPU than FurMark, then what will?
   
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Psychlone
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Default 08-29-2008, 16:16 | posts: 3,718 | Location: Searching for more light...

I don't understand how there's so many people in this one thread (so far, with the exception of 3 people 'in the know') - that no one here has heard of renaming the executable file to something recognized by the drivers as crossfire enabled.

Unbelievable how something as insignificant as this, and a little misinformation in the form of a 'web review' with 'astonishing results' - and how many people just jump the gun and believe anything that they read.

We've been renaming .exe files for YEARS - even the green side does it to enable SLI on programs that aren't coded for it...this isn't new, this isn't a conspiracy.

As far as I'm concerned, I'll never trust a site that bases it's 'knowledge' on things that they don't understand, especially when they say it with such conviction that people believe what they're saying because it sounds and looks 'official'...and the comments below on that site are just as amusing...apparently everyone on the planet but a select few were left out of the loop about renaming .exe files.

As for the cooling on the cards, while I agree that it could have been done better (and anyone that's ever owned an HiS IceQ of any version would know how a HS/f assembly should be made) - ATi has made this cooling system to do what it needs to do...I don't have to agree with ATi on their choices (hence my thread on replacing the thermal paste and Profiles tweaking) - but the fact remains that no single game is going to break your new card with the reference cooling.

Wow...I wish that people could just be more open minded about things rather than thinking someone is out to get them (or in this case, burn their cards) - get real...


Psychlone

I've got to add one of my most famous signatures that I've used for many, many years - just for this thread:

Light in the absence of eyes illuminates nothing...
   
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