PS2 and XBOX must die

**PS2 and XBOX must die -** 12-18-2002, 20:27 | posts: n/a

I post this here because ps2 and Xbox run on these cards.. sorry if it is the wrong spot

I don’t understand why PS2, X-Box and other console makers don’t have the option to upgrade the video cards. Is it that they don’t want the console to seem like a computer? But then I say, “who cares” it is a computer! Let me go back a few years when PS2 was coming out, I got on the ban-wagon a little late but ended up at a TOYS R US who I stayed in contact with about everyday to see when the pre-sale was going to be. I was first in line the day they had it and a month later picked up my PS2. I was in a WOW effect the first time I played Madden and it was like all the reviews I read over and over months before. I shortly found out that Madden wasn’t going to have online game play that year and that was one of the main reasons I got the console. Around that time I was told about the X-Box and that it would be out a year later and will have better graphics and all and online game play should be out at same time for it. So hell, I sold my PS2 a month after I got it and dug in for the long wait and stuck with my CPU. Madden for the PC “2001” wasn’t very good. In 2002 Madden was nice on the CPU and I think it put the PS2 graphics to shame. Shortly after Madden 2002 X-Box was arriving and I had paid for it in full at EB but three weeks before it was released I saw those nasty controllers! OMG! I got my money back and was sort of pissed I didn’t keep the PS2 all that time. After X-Box was out for a while I realized that the graphics were good but nothing like the GF3 could do on my CPU for Madden and was happy I didn’t have either of the two consoles I was just happy playing on the CPU. EA Sports builds Madden around the PS2 and just perks up the CPU version each year. They have no incentive to make their games around Geforce 3 or ATI 9700. They could look so real and be so awesome if they did. But with a PS2 going on it’s third year and before they make a PS3 maybe another 3 years. That is 6 years of a game built around a graphics card. Look back 6 years ago and remember the best graphics card that was out….. Probably 3DFX Voodoo 2? Now imagine if the games we play now were built for that card. I am saying no matter what gaming companies will build better graphic games no matter what if the consoles will support them but if they have no reason or they reach their peak with a card then they don’t. PS2 or X-Box should have allowed the video card to be an accessory and as the cards by Nvidia or ATI that are in these consoles get better we could by them as we do for CPU. This way games and graphics will grow with technology and not need a warp drive when the new PS3 or X-BOX comes out. “Three steps forward two steps back…..” I used Madden as an example but you can look at a lot of games this way. I think the console is a virus and need to be phased out, I know they wont be but they are holding back the quality and graphics that I want to see from my games.

Reality|Bites · 12-18-2002, 21:48 | posts: 5,038 | Location: Scotland

What abt the people who just want to play games and nothing else, don't you think it would be wiser and cheaper to buy a games console instead of a PC I mean you spend £300 on a video card every 6 months - 1 year, why not just spend the money on a games console every 2-3 years? more games that way, less hassle with drivers, etc...
and just buy a cheap ass pc for the internet. but that would lead to the people playing games on there pc's then the games wouldn't play fast enough due to poor system specs, so they would upgrade to a better graphics card and s hit lol
think i'll stop there

12-18-2002, 22:00 | posts: n/a

Ummm, Hello!

For the people who want to play games they need not upgrade then! But not everyone just wants to play games, some want better graphics and will pay every 6 months as they do with the PC cards. We go through drivers now with the PC so why not with XBOX or PS2, the X has a HD and hear the PS2 will soon. It gives us the options to do so or not to do so. If you just want to play games, fine! Play. But some of us want the games and graphics to be in the same decade as the newest video cards. It's not to hard to do and game companies will keep up as they always do. I am glad you stopped where you did, you acted like no one would want to upgrade a video card and all people want is to play games. LOL! Errr why make a FX or 9700? let's just use the 3DFX cards. LOL

PS. every two or three years for a new console? it took 5 or 6 years for PS1 to get to PS2 right? Something like that? LOL. Unless you have an inside man who will get you a PS3 this year PS2 is now going on it's 3rd year my man and signs of a PS3 is where? Not to much talk about pre paying for it yet.

12-19-2002, 03:04 | posts: n/a

You laugh a lot.

Anyway, don't expect anyone to make games for the 9700 pro or GF FX cards as a minimum requierment anytime soon, since the sales would be horrible.

We're barely at the point where they make games for the GF3 (as a minimum requierment). Btw, I'm not counting Doom 3, since ID obviousely cares more about having the best-looking game than about it actually working on an "average" pc.

Good-looking games simply won't sell much or will be returned for a refund too often, since not everyone has a 9700 pro or even a GF4 Ti 4200 like most of us on these hardware forums.

12-19-2002, 04:01 | posts: n/a

HEY TART FACE! The PS2 has a Emotion engine that does cpu and gpu work---its unbelieveably fast at its 400mhz, thats it... and it has no decompressor for textures... But anyway--just to let u know nvidia gpu is in xbox but not ps2... PS2 has no Graphics processor!

dr jonz · 12-19-2002, 04:35 | posts: 2,159 | Location: around

ummm... that's the point of the consoles. they offer games out on the market for the ones that want one system to be compatible with all the games out for a few years. i remember how pissed i was (before i got into computers) when the NES was dropped for the super nintendo because i had to buy a new system, but i got to keep the snes for a few years before the N64 came out.

computers are for ppl like you and mostly everybody else in this forum. they stay top notch all the time because they are always changing. Consoles are designed for those who want minimum investment and will hang around for 3-5 years.

im done ranting

12-19-2002, 07:00 | posts: n/a

EA Sports/ISI built f12002 around the pc, not around any console.

Btw, the reason why people cant upgrade their consoles is because they are consoles, that's why they are called gaming console.

12-19-2002, 09:41 | posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally posted by Steef :
But anyway--just to let u know nvidia gpu is in xbox but not ps2... PS2 has no Graphics processor

PS2 DOES have a Graphics Processor, in fact, they use DUAL 350Mhz RISC-CPU/GPU to do all the stuff, but unfortunately the GPU is not as powerful as a GF3Ti, or even a Radeon 8500, moreover, they don't have the PixelShader feature.. "praise oh ye PC owners"
XBOX uses NV20-class GPU, but it is NOT a GeForce. It is manufactured solely by Nvidia with added features which is originally intended for FX generations such as Hardware Motion-Blur processor and NVidia's Cinematic Gaming, and to handle all these ops, the core is running at ~500Mhz,.. Phew!! This makes XBOX a worthy rival for PC platform in gaming (That's why Epic uses different engine for UT2K3 and Unreal Championship)

And for the console hardware upgradability : Have you ever heard of "Strategy of Successful Marketing"?? Making a console which can be obsolete is a standard strat of manufacturers to gain a real big buck when they launch a much newer one.

Hatecrime69 · 12-19-2002, 12:50 | posts: 172

Quote:

Originally posted by KorganoS
PS2 DOES have a Graphics Processor, in fact, they use DUAL 350Mhz RISC-CPU/GPU to do all the stuff, but unfortunately the GPU is not as powerful as a GF3Ti, or even a Radeon 8500, moreover, they don't have the PixelShader feature.. "praise oh ye PC owners"
XBOX uses NV20-class GPU, but it is NOT a GeForce. It is manufactured solely by Nvidia with added features which is originally intended for FX generations such as Hardware Motion-Blur processor and NVidia's Cinematic Gaming, and to handle all these ops, the core is running at ~500Mhz,.. Phew!! This makes XBOX a worthy rival for PC platform in gaming (That's why Epic uses different engine for UT2K3 and Unreal Championship)

And for the console hardware upgradability : Have you ever heard of "Strategy of Successful Marketing"?? Making a console which can be obsolete is a standard strat of manufacturers to gain a real big buck when they launch a much newer one.

That and the console makers know hardware upgrades for consoles NEVER sell well and delevoper support for it is usually little (sega 32x anyone?)

top_gun36 · 12-20-2002, 03:00 | posts: 3,574 | Location: Vancouver BC Canada

All will Hail PS3 and the mighty Cell...

bonov · 12-20-2002, 07:25 | posts: 643 | Location: The Netherlands

The core of the X-BOX runs at 733Mhz and graphics processor is a 233 MHz custom-designed X-Chip, developed by Microsoft and nVidia. Like know your facts before posting something.

SPECS: > Xbox > PlayStation 2 > Gamecube
http://www.xboxcw.co.uk/specification.php

12-20-2002, 11:18 | posts: n/a

PS2 has one processor u terd... no dual anything--the EMOTION engine does everything--even decrompress teh textures... there is a graphics synthesizer that does just about nothing.... it uses decompressed textures. so yeah---thers no "GRAPHICS PROCESSING UNIT" just a qwerky little thing -- not that it lacks performance... just its emotion engine is damn fast---its Floating point is waaay higher than the xbox celeron/p3 hybrid cpu... just the xbox has an actual GPU (and a quite good one at that)

12-20-2002, 14:59 | posts: n/a

I get those 'false' infos from a mag here in my country, and it is not a good one I guess. My fuss

Hey, is there any PS2 or XBOX benchmarks? I'd like to compare it with my good ol' GF2

Reality|Bites · 12-20-2002, 16:11 | posts: 5,038 | Location: Scotland

how would you benchmark a games console

24-30 fps max as you use your tv, the only difference between each console is image quality and effects which can be benched through your eyes

12-20-2002, 16:20 | posts: n/a

u can linux a xbox

then bench it--thats not the same

Glidefan · 12-20-2002, 16:28 | posts: 11,890 | Location: Solar System, Earth, Med, Cyprus

Or linux in a PS2

12-20-2002, 21:24 | posts: n/a

If you have a nice gaming PC why the hell would want a console?

No console even comes close to a good PC & PC games in graphics..
The PC has literally 1000s of games that you can play ALL of them on a nice PC.....with a console you have what "that" console has, usually after a couple years or so there is 300-500 I assume, and most are pure shyte......
Very few console games ever come close to the quality of PC games..
Most console games are measured in "hours" of gameplay...Usually 20-30 hours and game over throw it in a box, and go out and buy the next short, graphically inferior, $50+ console game..
Many PC games are measured in months and some MMORPGs in YEARS of gameplay...
and with Mods a game you got 2 years ago is WAY bigger & Better than when you bought it...

Online?...Bah, PC all the way..no contest..

Lan Party, PC only again...
several friends coming over and each with thier own 21"+ monitor all on a ZERO lag Lan with a Keg on ice roxors

Console Lan party = 4 fools sitting side by side like pigs at a trough all starring a lil small corner 1/4th of a low rez (640x480x16) TV screen where the already subpar graphics are even worse, and you can see exactly what everybody is doing, real fun....Not!...suxors

There are several PC games out and many more to come that arent even possible on a console, the console dont have the arse/resources to run them.....

You can do ANYTHING on a PC that you can do on a console just better.....

12-20-2002, 21:42 | posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally posted by NunyaBiz
If you have a nice gaming PC why the hell would want a console?

No console even comes close to a good PC & PC games in graphics..
The PC has literally 1000s of games that you can play ALL of them on a nice PC.....with a console you have what "that" console has, usually after a couple years or so there is 300-500 I assume, and most are pure shyte......
Very few console games ever come close to the quality of PC games..
Most console games are measured in "hours" of gameplay...Usually 20-30 hours and game over throw it in a box, and go out and buy the next short, graphically inferior, $50+ console game..
Many PC games are measured in months and some MMORPGs in YEARS of gameplay...
and with Mods a game you got 2 years ago is WAY bigger & Better than when you bought it...

Online?...Bah, PC all the way..no contest..

Lan Party, PC only again...
several friends coming over and each with thier own 21"+ monitor all on a ZERO lag Lan with a Keg on ice roxors

Console Lan party = 4 fools sitting side by side like pigs at a trough all starring a lil small corner 1/4th of a low rez (640x480x16) TV screen where the already subpar graphics are even worse, and you can see exactly what everybody is doing, real fun....Not!...suxors

There are several PC games out and many more to come that arent even possible on a console, the console dont have the arse/resources to run them.....

You can do ANYTHING on a PC that you can do on a console just better.....

Fighting games are much better on a console.

12-20-2002, 22:35 | posts: n/a

True, but only because there really arent any fighting games on the PC...

IF there were, they would/could be just as good if not better onthe PC.
You can hook your PC up to your TV, and ther are several good controllers for PCs....

12-20-2002, 22:53 | posts: n/a

uh that site is wrong
http://www.xboxcw.co.uk/specification.php

the PS2 runs at 400mhz. although it is equal to about 2ghz in todays PCs.

also, it does have a graphics processor, the Graphics Synthesizer.

don't wanna start another PS2 vs Xbox debate though.

i agree with the guy about console LAN parties. my xbox'd friends have one every month and i go every once in a while. gawd, nothing compared to a PC LAN party. I mean, you sit, and you stare at the screen. The games over. You sit, stare at the screen. Peek at your opponents screen, go kill him and it's over. lame

12-21-2002, 00:03 | posts: n/a

Good grief...will these console wars never end??
TerroH8er, I think you'll find that it is quite widely known that the PS2 CPU is about 295mhz....for what it's worth. In conjunction with that Emotion Engine, and a few other bits, it has excessively fast Ram-to-CPU speeds, far faster than PC or Xbox, or GameCube and as such is able to be pulling off some of the feats that we are seeing now. Games such as TimeSplitters 2, Colin Mcrea 3, and The Getaway, would have been thought technically impossible on the PS2 a few months ago, yet it runs them without difficulty. These sorts of games require massive CPU and graphics cards in a conventional PC to attempt to run.
In many ways though it is irrelavent for people to keep comparing consoles to PC's....originaly, consoles gave us access, at home, to video games that were only available in arcades. They still continue produce unique and graphically superb games, and of course, take advantage of new hardware as it is developed.
The PC, however, spent years playing catch-up, and has finally reached a point where it honestly can be viewed as a viable alternative to a console, along with it's advantage of internet, and LAN based multiplayer....something that consoles only recently have had to address.
This doesn't mean of course, that consoles are becoming redundant. Just because a lot of games come out as multi-platform, and thus, the PC version is ripe for conversion, new graphics, and mod-sets, the console versions are equaly valid. There are still many people who haven't ventured into the PC minefield, or don't want to, because of all the 'fun' we have with incompatible hardware/ software, constantly changing drivers, etc....They just want 'plug and play' in it's purest form - plug in the game, and play it, forget the hardware.....
Plus of course, many games on consoles never make it to the PC, due to developers' preferences. I doubt very much that Sony will allow it's newest, and one of the best game experiences so far, The Getaway, to get a PC release, in much the same way that Rare's Goldeneye never did......So, if you want to play those games, you have to have the right console...and after seeing all the problems that were experienced after GTA3 got it's PC release, it's probably a good thing that The Getaway, etc, stay on the console

Yes, I own a PS2, and a decent PC, and I know that should something like The Getaway ever be released for the PC, I would need a pretty hefty upgrade for it to run well....we see that SO often with console conversions to PC....the PC requirements are usually 3 times that of the consoles power.....purely on the strength that the console was built for games ONLY, yet the PC is still a 'Jack of All Trades'.

MrOuija

the heated discussion about consoles by people who like pc's

12-22-2002, 00:43 | posts: n/a

the "acclaimed" graphics synth in a ps2 is not a GPU u monkeyterd... it does just about nothing since the graphics on a ps2 use decompressed textures... I am a PS2 all the way guy over teh other consoles, but c'mon man the ps2 synth is not a GPU!

12-22-2002, 01:43 | posts: n/a

For me, I play consoles when my friends are over, and I play PC games when it's just me here. I prefer PC, but I'm also a big fighting game fan, I play all the capcom cartoon type games on PS2 and Dreamcast. I placed 3rd place in street fighter alpha II at a tournament 3 years ago. There were like 300 people playing. Has anybody downloaded that Splinter Cell game yet? I'm thinking about checking that out.

12-22-2002, 02:01 | posts: n/a

hell, what do those downloadable emulators out there do? there are some u can download for free, and some u can buy, which is not that expensive as the original console. pcs can do everything, if i may ask one question, how were consoles built? i think computers are needed to make these next-gen consoles, so in the end, consoles came from pcs, which are endlessly evolving with time, that's why consoles also evolve, they depend on the evolution of pcs. without pcs, there will be no consoles.