Apple patent filing looks a lot like Microsoft Surface

[Spets]

http://www.geekwire.com/2012/apple-p...osoft-surface/

[nhlkoho]

Thats what Apple does. Patent someone elses design and then sue them. Apple are the biggest patent trolls out there

[deltatux]

Since Microsoft and Apple are partners (Microsoft has a lot of interest invested in the Apple ecosystem), it wouldn't be in their best interests to sue Microsoft.

Probably they'll somehow go after the ASUS Transformer Pad, Huawei MediaPad 10 FHD, or Lenovo IdeaPad S2110 with this patent since they actually have keyboard docks.

deltatux

[IPlayNaked]

Originally Posted by deltatux

Since Microsoft and Apple are partners (Microsoft has a lot of interest invested in the Apple ecosystem), it wouldn't be in their best interests to sue Microsoft.

Probably they'll somehow go after the ASUS Transformer Pad, Huawei MediaPad 10 FHD, or Lenovo IdeaPad S2110 with this patent since they actually have keyboard docks.

deltatux

Probably, they'll go after them because these devices you listed are rectangular with curved edges, and require touch input. Oh, also, the devices in question feature "scrolling" which we all know, Apple came up with.

[thatguy91]

Thing is ASUS transformer pad etc have proof they were out first. It's 2012, it would be like sticking an engine on a horse buggy then filing for a patent on the invention of a combustion engine powered self-propelling automobile (car). Patents are meant to protect a companies investment into developing new products and ideas, not patenting everything left, right, and centre in order to make a quick buck with suing people that have been making the item for quite a while.

What it comes down to is the countries patent favouring the local company (Apple) over a foreign company (Apple, Samsung etc).

Patents were only intended to cover new ideas, but it seems in some countries you are quite free to patent other peoples ideas, event blatantly so (like this instance), even in cases where the patent of the originating company has expired.

[airbud7]

Originally Posted by thatguy91

Patents were only intended to cover new ideas, but it seems in some countries you are quite free to patent other peoples ideas, event blatantly so (like this instance), even in cases where the patent of the originating company has expired.

Well Said....^

[deltatux]

Originally Posted by thatguy91

Thing is ASUS transformer pad etc have proof they were out first. It's 2012, it would be like sticking an engine on a horse buggy then filing for a patent on the invention of a combustion engine powered self-propelling automobile (car). Patents are meant to protect a companies investment into developing new products and ideas, not patenting everything left, right, and centre in order to make a quick buck with suing people that have been making the item for quite a while.

What it comes down to is the countries patent favouring the local company (Apple) over a foreign company (Apple, Samsung etc).

Patents were only intended to cover new ideas, but it seems in some countries you are quite free to patent other peoples ideas, event blatantly so (like this instance), even in cases where the patent of the originating company has expired.

That didn't seem to stop Apple from saying that SAMSUNG and others copied the iPhone and iPad when:
a) the Samsung products look nothing like the iPhone/iPad. Galaxy S was a bit close for comfort, but really? The Galaxy Tab 10.1 looks NOTHING like the iPad.
b) clearly as long as Apple copies others is fine, but when others copy them, all hell breaks loose.
c) Copying is fine as long as the company has interest in your company/ecosystem. You don't see Apple suing Microsoft when Microsoft incorporated some functionality of MacOS X with the Spotlight search bar in the Windows Vista Start Menu with the search function and etc.

These three reasons were the few big reasons I pulled my support for Apple. I used to like them quite a bit, but this whole pointless patent war, is a deal breaker. I haven't recommended any Apple products since this patent battle started.

deltatux

[Neo Cyrus]

We all knew they were going to patent this, they always patent the ideas of other companies, nothing to see here.

[EspHack]

^thats because you are in the apple's enemy gruop haha

[deltatux]

Originally Posted by EspHack

^thats because you are in the apple's enemy gruop haha

If you knew me well, you'll know how big a fan I was of Apple when I was a kid . I still use my Macbook that I got in 2007 to this day (probably the only Apple product I'll ever have until this bullsh!t stops).

deltatux

[Chouji]

Patents in the US are messed up.
You can patent someone else's invention, if they haven't put a patent on it first.
If a company creates and designs a revolutionary new air purifier, but doesn't patent it. Even after months of having it on the market, another company can step in, and put a patent on it, without even needing to duplicate it. Then that second company can sue the creators, after the fact.
It's just ridiculous.

There are people out there, that go over numerous individuals/companies inventions to see if they put a patent on their product, and if they didn't they'll go out and patent it.

You would think that there's no way this is happening, but i've seen it happen to someone i know. Someone else patented his work while he was in the prototyping stage.

[ATR]

what is even more screwed up about the samsung vs apple battle is that samsung acctually make apple's cpu chips.

[The Laughing Ma]

not patenting everything left, right, and centre in order to make a quick buck with suing people that have been making the item for quite a while.

I don't think they do it to make a quick buck, let's face it patent something so that you can sue someone for infringement gives a one off non sustainable income. However if you use the patent to crush any and all opposition, you leave the market open for just your product, that's what Apple, saying that not just Apple mind, are doing.

Patent something so generic that it is a given feature on any product within the market and then use the patent to try and stop others from selling competing products.

Gone are the days when companies got to the top by just selling the best product for the right price.

[thatguy91]

They not only make a quick buck, but once the patent is filed, the original company now has to pay royalties for their own design until the patent runs out or they stop making the product. What the patent snatcher wants is for the other company to pay for the 'losses' (even though they're the ones losing out) and to continue paying royalties, hence future profit.

The issue here is much of the Apple patent filings, especially when it comes to design are NOT and should NOT be patent issues. The closest thing that many of these so called patents cover are copyright issues, and things like a tablet with round corners shouldn't ever come under copyright.

Funny thing is if America keeps issuing patents along this fashion it is going to bite back on them hard, maybe one day say the WTO (for example) may require that patents move to an international basis, and all these stupid FAKE patent filings will become invalidated.

Don't get me wrong, I support the concept of patents, but patents in the proper sense not what patents have become in America and even Britain.

They should not:
- be able to patent other people's ideas
- be able to patent concepts which are, or have been, already made (such as the patent this thread talks about
- renew patents of other companies once the original patent has expired, unless the company has ownership of the original company
- be able to patent things which fall under copyright (even copyright design)
- be able to patent things which clearly aren't intellectual property (such as round corners on a tablet)

[sykozis]

Originally Posted by thatguy91

Funny thing is if America keeps issuing patents along this fashion it is going to bite back on them hard, maybe one day say the WTO (for example) may require that patents move to an international basis, and all these stupid FAKE patent filings will become invalidated.

The best thing that could ever happen to the US Patent system, is being disolved... They sign off on every patent Apple files, regardless of how rediculous it is. In an honest patent system, Apple would see patents invalidated at record breaking rates and patents would only be issued in cases where "inventions" actually exist.....instead of signing off on every "proof of concept" patent that Apple files for.

[thatguy91]

Originally Posted by sykozis

The best thing that could ever happen to the US Patent system, is being disolved... They sign off on every patent Apple files, regardless of how rediculous it is. In an honest patent system, Apple would see patents invalidated at record breaking rates and patents would only be issued in cases where "inventions" actually exist.....instead of signing off on every "proof of concept" patent that Apple files for.

Exactly.

[volkov956]

Patent system overall is no longer needed it has been overfilled with BS and is no longer regulated properlly its a free for all. I say lets remove it all together if a company cant survive cause another makes the same thing but does better then maybe its just you were beat out hell happens all the time welcome to a supposed open economy

[NeoElNino]

Apple's patent is a joke, the concept of wtv device they are talking about is too general and im surprised it was even accepted as a patent. BS

[Lane]

The problem today is you can fill any patent of an existing idea on any domain and just add the word "Mobile device".. If you take the idea of icon largely used on any OS, and a scrolling bar for show where you are in the scroll ( generally used in any document or folders etc ), try to fill a patent with this for your mobile OS, any patent judge should declare this one totally irrelevant.

Note their patent is absolutely not describing a magnetic solid cover who include a keyboard and trackpad and transformthe system screen + cover on a laptop style .. It describe a cover who can use different function, ambient solar power collector, or be used as a second screen. ( allready patented but technology wise by other anyway ( including the pro paint tablet )

[F1refly]

sounds like richman problems

[sykozis]

Next step after disolving the USPTO and patent system in favor of a worldwide patent system, is invalidating ALL "proof of concept" patents (which only hinder innovation anyway) and requiring "proof of invention" as part of the patent process. Then, just implement a proper set of guidelines for obtaining a patent....something like these:

1. Patent must be based on a demonstratable invention (meaning, if you haven't already manufactured a working model, the application is immediately rejected)
2. Invention can't be based or borrow from "inventions" previously patented (like Apple's patent for displaying 3D images using layered OLED screens where Apple relies on patents held by other companies)
3. Patent can't infinge on innovation in any way (meaning "rectangle with rounded corners" = invalid patent)
3a. If an industry or competing product will depend on it, it can't be patented (like system busses, interconnects, etc....or "methods for transferring data"...)
4. Must prove origin of invention and contact info for inventor(s).
5. Patents are non-transferrable and non-extendable
6. Patents must be licensed upon request, under reasonable terms.
7. Patent infringement claimants must provide proof of theft or refusal to license by other party.