Raid 0 Trim support, intel RST 11.2

[Ouzo]

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthre...=1#post8461877

Seems like finally we got Trim support in Raid 0.

Not sure how to test it though Windows can always tell me Trim is enabled, but how do I know for sure, the driver is passing trim to SSDs?

Edited: Title 11.2 -> 11.5

[Arctucas]

I have been running RST 11.5 for a while now.

When I run the installer for this RST (11.2), it says my currently installed version is newer.

Anyway, from what I have been able to ascertain, Windows 7 will not pass the TRIM command to individual drives in a RAID 0 array, despite what the help file says. Windows 8, on the other hand, allegedly will allow the TRIM command to to be sent to individual drives in a RAID 0 array.

However, if someone has evidence to the contrary on either of the above, I would be interested in seeing it.

[pimp_gimp]

Originally Posted by Ouzo

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthre...=1#post8461877

Seems like finally we got Trim support in Raid 0.

Not sure how to test it though Windows can always tell me Trim is enabled, but how do I know for sure, the driver is passing trim to SSDs?

Open a command prompt with administrative privileges (right-click run as administrator) and type:

fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify

If the result is, 0 then TRIM is enabled. Also Crystal DiskInfo can tell you.

[Arctucas]

Originally Posted by pimp_gimp

Open a command prompt with administrative privileges (right-click run as administrator) and type:

fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify

If the result is, 0 then TRIM is enabled. Also Crystal DiskInfo can tell you.

I believe the question was how does one determine if the TRIM command is actually being passed to the individual drives?

[pimp_gimp]

Originally Posted by Arctucas

I believe the question was how does one determine if the TRIM command is actually being passed to the individual drives?

CrystalDiskInfo can tell you that, as it shows individual drives (even in RAID) and shows what can commands are enabled. I forgot to add that you'll also possibly need to update your motherboard's BIOS to the latest as it should contain the newest Intel Orom 11.2.1527.

[Arctucas]

Originally Posted by pimp_gimp

CrystalDiskInfo can tell you that, as it shows individual drives (even in RAID) and shows what can commands are enabled. I forgot to add that you'll also possibly need to update your motherboard's BIOS to the latest as it should contain the newest Intel Orom 11.2.1527.

What am I looking for here?

And I am using OROM 11.5.1111.

[pimp_gimp]

Originally Posted by Arctucas

What am I looking for here?

And I am using OROM 11.5.1111.

Where it says features it should show what's enabled, in your screenshot it shows that SMART, 48bit LBA, NCQ, and TRIM are enabled, but not APM, or AAM.

[chispy]

I have been doing a lot of research on this matter and as of today no one can assure me TRIM its working under w7 while using Raid0 , and i have tested many OROMS 11.2-11.5 with moded Bios as well as alpha/Beta 11.5 RST Drivers on the wild ,also the latest ones 11.2 whql, and its a no go yet. Until someone really show me some real proff with real data back up by Intel white papers and a statement release it wont happen , sadly. Im so waiting and want this to happen too , but i guess time will tell.

[Arctucas]

Originally Posted by chispy

I have been doing a lot of research on this matter and as of today no one can assure me TRIM its working under w7 while using Raid0 , and i have tested many OROMS 11.2-11.5 with moded Bios as well as alpha/Beta 11.5 RST Drivers on the wild ,also the latest ones 11.2 whql, and its a no go yet. Until someone really show me some real proff with real data back up by Intel white papers and a statement release it wont happen , sadly. Im so waiting and want this to happen too , but i guess time will tell.

That is basically my experience.

Until I see definitive proof that it is working, I must believe it is not.

[Ouzo]

Originally Posted by Arctucas

That is basically my experience.

Until I see definitive proof that it is working, I must believe it is not.

This.

All above, is just Windows and other software informing me, that it is enabled and supported, I believe, by HD & Windows.

But to be truly sure, that those TRIM commands are actually executed by HD in RAID 0 ARRAY, how the hell can one prove that

[chinobino]

+1, Need more proof.

There's some more fairly recent info here.

[Brendruis]

Basically, it will pass the command along to INDIVIDUAL drives when the controller is set to RAID MODE. This does not mean you get TRIM on your RAID ARRAY, just on individual drives that are connected to the controller in RAID mode.

With the Intel Controller to RAID mode, if I have 4 HDDs with HDD 1 and 2 as members of an array, then only HDD 3 and 4 would still be passed the TRIM command, whereas before it would only be passed in AHCI mode.

Hope that makes sense.

[Ouzo]

Originally Posted by Brendruis

Basically, it will pass the command along to INDIVIDUAL drives when the controller is set to RAID MODE. This does not mean you get TRIM on your RAID ARRAY, just on individual drives that are connected to the controller in RAID mode.

With the Intel Controller to RAID mode, if I have 4 HDDs with HDD 1 and 2 as members of an array, then only HDD 3 and 4 would still be passed the TRIM command, whereas before it would only be passed in AHCI mode.

Hope that makes sense.

This before the 11.2 / 11.5 or with them also?

So what you are saying, and if it applies to 11.2/11.5 would mean there is NO TRIM support on RAID 0 ARRAY HDDs?

[Brendruis]

Originally Posted by Ouzo

This before the 11.2 / 11.5 or with them also?

So what you are saying, and if it applies to 11.2/11.5 would mean there is NO TRIM support on RAID 0 ARRAY HDDs?

Yes, it is not for RAID ARRAYS it is for SINGLE DRIVES TRIM passthrough when attached to the controller in RAID mode. The documentation is confusing but if you read it carefully that is essentially what it is saying.

[Arctucas]

Originally Posted by Brendruis

Yes, it is not for RAID ARRAYS it is for SINGLE DRIVES TRIM passthrough when attached to the controller in RAID mode. The documentation is confusing but if you read it carefully that is essentially what it is saying.

• Trim (Microsoft Windows 7* only)
This feature provides support for all pass-through solid-state drives (SSDs) in your storage system that meets the ATA-8 protocol requirements. Also, support is provided for SSDs that are part of a RAID 0 array. This feature optimizes write operations, helps reduce device wear, and maintains unused storage area on devices as large as possible.

^This documentation? (Copied/pasted from the IRST 11.2.0.1006 Help)^

[Brendruis]

If you are talking about the official release (11.2) and not alpha or whatever then yes TRIM is only passed to non-member drives

Supposedly because of Windows 7 recognizing RAID arrays as SCSI it does not pass the TRIM command.

A similar command exists for SCSI called UNMAP which does exactly as the name suggests... it unmaps logical blocks.

[spine]

Originally Posted by Arctucas

• Trim (Microsoft Windows 7* only)
This feature provides support for all pass-through solid-state drives (SSDs) in your storage system that meets the ATA-8 protocol requirements. Also, support is provided for SSDs that are part of a RAID 0 array. This feature optimizes write operations, helps reduce device wear, and maintains unused storage area on devices as large as possible.

^This documentation? (Copied/pasted from the IRST 11.2.0.1006 Help)^

If that statement from Intel is 100% accurate, then it is explicitly saying that TRIM commands are being sent to individual drives that are in a RAID-0 array. The wording could not be clearer.

It is not saying that it passes TRIM to the array, but to the individual drives themselves.


I guess us RAID-0 SSD nuts have been waiting so long for this that we expected more of a fanfair, but, TRIM in RAID-0 is apparently here...

[chispy]

Finally some hard evidence from a guy who does Bios Mod himself , Fernando has finally proven that YES Trim its working only in Windows 8 using Bios OROM v11.5.0.1414 for Intel Chipset Raid and Intel RST(e) drivers v11.5.0.1184. All information and how to flash your own Bios with new updated 11.5 Bios OROM For Intel Chipset raid Controller and latest 11.5 drivers all here.

ROM: Intel RAID ROM v11.5.0.1414 may open TRIM for RAID
---------------------------------------------------------

http://www.station-drivers.com/forum...hp?f=32&t=3910

Fernando tutorial about how to do it:

BIOS-Modding: How to update PCI ROM modules of an AMI/Phoenix/Award BIOS
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.win-lite.de/wbb/board208-...ix-award-bios/

All credit goes to Fernando for all the hard work and testing he has done. Thank you fernando.

[Arctucas]

Originally Posted by chispy

Finally some hard evidence from a guy who does Bios Mod himself , Fernando has finally proven that YES Trim its working only in Windows 8 using Bios OROM v11.5.0.1414 for Intel Chipset Raid and Intel RST(e) drivers v11.5.0.1184. All information and how to flash your own Bios with new updated 11.5 Bios OROM For Intel Chipset raid Controller and latest 11.5 drivers all here.

ROM: Intel RAID ROM v11.5.0.1414 may open TRIM for RAID
---------------------------------------------------------

http://www.station-drivers.com/forum...hp?f=32&t=3910

Fernando tutorial about how to do it:

BIOS-Modding: How to update PCI ROM modules of an AMI/Phoenix/Award BIOS
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.win-lite.de/wbb/board208-...ix-award-bios/

All credit goes to Fernando for all the hard work and testing he has done. Thank you fernando.

Yes, I saw that yesterday, but Windows 7 is the issue here, is it not?

[chispy]

Originally Posted by Arctucas

Yes, I saw that yesterday, but Windows 7 is the issue here, is it not?

Yes my friend , i won't change w7 for w8 only for Trim support. Let's keep on researching maybe theres a way , last thing we loose its hope !

[Arctucas]

Originally Posted by chispy

Yes my friend , i won't change w7 for w8 only for Trim support. Let's keep on researching maybe theres a way , last thing we loose its hope !

Neither will I.

Unless that abhorrent Immersive UI and the Windows Store are able to be completely removed (which, of course, Microsoft will never permit).

I continue to hope for individual drives in a RAID 0 array to be able to use TRIM on Windows 7, and I believe if Microsoft and Intel wished to make it so, it would happen.

[Fernando 1]

Originally Posted by chispy

Fernando has finally proven that YES Trim its working only in Windows 8 using Bios OROM v11.5.0.1414 for Intel Chipset Raid and Intel RST(e) drivers v11.5.0.1184.

It's not yet 100% proven, but there are some important signs, that the Trim command really is active within the RAID0 array while running Windows 8, if the system is using the said Intel OROM/driver combination.

[chispy]

Originally Posted by Fernando 1

It's not yet 100% proven, but there are some important signs, that the Trim command really is active within the RAID0 array while running Windows 8, if the system is using the said Intel OROM/driver combination.

Great to see you made it here Fernando and Welcome to Guru3D , i will be testing that latest OROM ROM 11.5.01414 and RST v11.5.0.1184 , will post back results later .

[chispy]

Intel Raid ROM V.11.5.0.1414
Intel RST Driver 11.2.0.1006
Test # 1
Asus R3E X58 ICHR10
W7x64 bit
Raid0 128k Stripe size used
AS SSD
ATTO

7/18/2012 11.55PM


By chispy at 2012-07-18


By chispy at 2012-07-18


By chispy at 2012-07-18

Findings: Bios Raid ROM 11.5.0.1414 its faster than Bios Raid ROM 11.2 even with RST Driver 11.2.0.1006 as shown in the bench tests AS SSD and ATTO. It wont let me update to Intel Driver RST 11.5 , the system says it's using the latest driver and it's up to date. I will now re-install w7 x64bit installling RST Driver pressing f6 during w7x64 fresh installation and i will report back in a few hours.

[chispy]

Intel Raid ROM V.11.5.0.1414
Intel RST Driver 11.2.0.1006
Test # 1
Asus R3E X58 ICHR10
W7x64 bit
Raid0 128k Stripe size used
AS SSD
ATTO

7/18/2012 11.55PM


By chispy at 2012-07-18


By chispy at 2012-07-18


By chispy at 2012-07-18

Findings: Bios Raid ROM 11.5.0.1414 its faster than Bios Raid ROM 11.2 even with RST Driver 11.2.0.1006 as shown in the bench tests AS SSD and ATTO. It wont let me update to Intel Driver RST 11.5 , the system says it's using the latest driver and it's up to date. I will now re-install w7 x64bit installling RST Driver during w7x64 fresh installation and i will report back in a few hours.



Second Part

Test # 2

Intel Raid ROM V.11.5.0.1414
Intel RST Driver 11.5.0.1184
Test # 2
Asus R3E X58 ICHR10
2x Samsung 830 128GB SSDs Raid0 , Secure Erased Both SSDs
W7x64 SP1 bit Clean Fresh Install with all updates
Raid0 128k Stripe size used
AS SSD
ATTO

7/19/2012 3:32AM

AS SSD


By chispy at 2012-07-19

ATTO


By chispy at 2012-07-19

My Findings and Conclusion: More Performance out of the combination of using both , Bios ROM 11.5 and RST Driver 11.5 , so far this is the best combination of driver RST and Bios Raid ROM for a good bump in performance , Writes did improved the most. Much more ballanced performance across. Very stable so far. I will hammered it with a lot of work and benchmarks for one week to see how the performance has degraded , or if by miracle some kind of TRIM or garbage collection its past trhu the Raid0 but as simple drives and not as a Raid0 array , time and testing will tell us next week wednesday 25th of July i will post the same benchmarks AS SSD and ATTO to see how far degradation has taken this array in one week thru hell.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Test # 3 and conclusion.

7/25/2012 10:34AM

One week has passed since i have started torture testing my Raid0 array , testing mode used as follow: 3 consecutive runs of each benchmark 5 times a day for a whole week AS SSD , ATTO , Cristal Disk , Anvil Storage Utilities , HD Tune , HDD Tach , Lots of writes and Lots of Reads + Large transfer files of BR Movies and huge pictures from diferent drives to and from the Raid0 array non stop for hours on end each day for 7 days , drive was used 24/7. Here its the real time performance of the same Raid0 array of 2x 128 Samsung SSDs on Intel ICHR10 x58 Using Intel Raid ROM V.11.5.0.1414 , Intel RST Driver 11.5.0.1184.

AS SSD


By chispy at 2012-07-25

ATTO


By chispy at 2012-07-25


Final Conclusion and my own opinion / understanding: YES some kind of Trim and or garbage collection its working under w7x64bit restoring performance back to optimal speeds , It is to my opinion and understanding that under w7 x64 there some new files within the driver that Fernando discover earlier namely C:\windows\system32\DRIVERS\iaStorF.sys , this file its some kind of new filter for the function of the new 11.5 RST Driver , this filter must be seen the SCSI device in the Raid0 array as single drives and passing TRIM and or some kind of Garbage Collection as it is the only logical conclusion after the rigorous torture testing done for 7 days to this Raid0 array , i observe very bad degradation on Reads and Writes after the 5th pass of all the bencmark test , the system Reads went down to 294 max reads and 232 Max writes on AS SSD and ATTO , but once i let iddle for a couple of hours the Performance went back up and was completely restored to optimal speeds. I will try to contact Intel for an explanation and if they answer my questions i will post them here , feel free to do your own testing , im done with mine and i did prove to myself that yes definitely something its improving performance back after iddle time of about 2 hours of iddle system time. Feel free to discuss my findings and if you have a better theory and understanding with real data as proff + extensive testing please let us discuss here , Long live W7 x64bit



By chispy at 2012-07-25