anisotropic vs trilinear

six · **anisotropic vs trilinear -** 11-14-2005, 21:22 | posts: 624

In MS flight sim, the filtering options are bi and trilinear, or none. Now, almost everyone sets AF in the drivers, then also selects trilinear in the game. So what is happening here? Exactly what type of filtering is being used when you select two different things like this?

Vanadis · 11-14-2005, 22:07 | posts: 927 | Location: Midgard

Anisotropic, since the videocard settings will always override the ingame settings.

orenda635 · 11-14-2005, 22:33 | posts: 6,867 | Location: GTA, Ontario, Canada

I believe Trilinear is software base where anisotropic is hardware. Because MSFS uses so much CPU power, its best to let the gfx card handle any graphical rendering. Therefore, use AF.

six · 11-15-2005, 00:27 | posts: 624

So you are only using one or the other?
That's what I thought too, but.... here's the long version....

Settings:
AF 8x (app pref unchecked)
Game settings: no bi/trilinear
graphics are pretty good.

But then....
AF 8X (app pref unchecked)
Game settings: trilinear
graphics are even better.

I told someone that there's no way you can be using AF and trilinear, you use one or the other, but I'm starting to doubt this due to the above results.

So I can't figure out how filtering is being applied in this game. I'll try to get some screenshots up soon.

orenda635 · *Last edited by orenda635; 11-15-2005 at 02:00.*

Why don't you just max out all sliders. Set AF and AA to as high as they will go. You have a 6800GT so it should be more than enough to handle FS2004. Try setting ingame sliders to max as well. AA 4x and AS 16x is a good setting. Play around with AA to see if it will go higher without creating too much lag. I always keep trilinear on in game as well.

Better yet, go to www.avsim.com and download the Reality XP FS2004 Tweaker guide. Search for file name reality_xp_fs2k4_tweaker.zip

This guide explains what the different display settings in FS2004 are, how they impact performance and IQ, and when to use them.

six · 11-15-2005, 04:27 | posts: 624

Hi, thanks for the link. I'm a long time simmer and pretty much know all the .cfg file values and pc tweaks. After d'loading that file I realized I've looked it over once before.

But, I do keep settings almost maxed, but the cpu-dependent ones (weather, traffic, etc) I reduce a bit, due to the complex addons I use.

The filtering really puzzles me, I've never seen another app that seemingly contradicts (or supplements?) the vid card settings like this. I know AF should of course be set, but it's the game setting options that puzzle me. I've asked about this in several forums for years now, and never a sure answer. Ever.

Time to write MS?

ViciousXUSMC · 11-15-2005, 06:43 | posts: 1,563 | Location: Tampa, Fl いえ

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1607379,00.asp

Straight up the best article to learn about each filtering type.

Bilinear-takes the higher res textures that are close to you and as they get farther away turns them into lower res textures to increase speed and performance in the game but its a straight jump from hi-res t low-res textures and if you have a good eye you can see where the textures change (4 pixels per texture)

Trilinear-same thing as bilinear except now it takes the point where the textures change from hi-res to low-res and blends them together to make the change in quality much less noticable. (8 pixels per texture) effectivly takes 2x the power of bilenear tho so maybe some slower computers will not do good with this depending on how visuals are set in a game.

Anisotropic Filtering- Its like a "smart" filter that the video cards iq determins what textures in your point of view in the game should be rendered as hi-res or low-res so its like trilinear sorta but uses more rendering power. It activly selects wich type of filtering should be used on each texture from 4pixel bilinear to 16pixel anisotripic and anything inbetween.

AA- Is the process in wich the video card smooths out jagged textures usualy low res textures have a jagged apperance but AA blends these into a more smooth or straight line and makes the game have a much more fluid look.

As far as these being hardware/software based its both. By default the video card lets each of these be set by the game (software) but if your game does not have a option for these filiters you may manualy select them from your video card fuctions under advanced display properties.

If you select a certian filter in the video card properties it will overide any software selected filters.

So you must leave it as aplication controlled or set it to a limit you feel comfortable with in the control panel.

Bi < Tri < AF

AA is seperate

six · 11-15-2005, 09:10 | posts: 624

Thanks Vicious. Like I said I'll try to get some screenies up here (if there's anything to show). I know a guy who swears he sees a huge difference with Bi or Tri enabled or disabled, even though AF is already set in the control panel.

ViciousXUSMC · 11-15-2005, 09:17 | posts: 1,563 | Location: Tampa, Fl いえ

Yes you can run both at the same time, you will see a diffrence. You cant run Bi and Tri at the same time tho.

Like I said tri is a set filter, AF is a active filter, having both on has a postive effect.

depending on your cards drivers, and the game, the effects seen can vary quite abit.

And your welcome, I am sure your not the only one that didnt know the diffrence between them and it was a good question to ask.

Edit because my spelling is worse than that of a 3-yr old

Animatrix · 11-15-2005, 10:35 | posts: 6,852 | Location: Denmark

Random links (including the extremetech i see).

http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/Anisotropic/index1.php
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...,548248,00.asp
http://www.nvnews.net/previews/gefor...sotropic.shtml
http://www.richleader.com/bargainbin...-filtering.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anisotropic_filtering

http://www.garry.tv/img/cssource/texture-filtering.jpg

here is one by Unwinder on intellisample (old)
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/...intellisample/

http://developer.nvidia.com/object/A...ng_OpenGL.html
http://developer.nvidia.com/page/documentation.html

orenda635 · *Last edited by orenda635; 11-15-2005 at 21:56.*

Quote:

Originally posted by six
Thanks Vicious. Like I said I'll try to get some screenies up here (if there's anything to show). I know a guy who swears he sees a huge difference with Bi or Tri enabled or disabled, even though AF is already set in the control panel.

FS2004 is a very fickle game. It responds very differently to different settings in different system environments. Try playing around with drivers. I'm not sure what he means by a huge difference. I'll take a look and get back to you.

EDIT: I did my own test and took some screenshots. All in 1024x768 res. High Image quality. Aircraft detail sliders maxed.

Reference Image. This was shot with no AF, no AA, and no Filtering.
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/8...oaanone4ik.jpg

Second Image. 16x AF, 8xS AA, No Filtering
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/5...8aanone0kf.jpg

Third Image. 16x AF, 8xS AA, Bilinear Filtering
http://img334.imageshack.us/img334/4...af8aabi5da.jpg

Fourth Image. 16x AF, 8xS AA, Trilinear Filtering
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/7...f8aatri0iy.jpg

As you can see, no filtering looks the worst. Using hardware filtering helps smooth the image. Using both hardware and software filtering produces the best image. Differences between Trilinear and Bilinear are subtle at best so it doesn't matter what you use.

Owlsphone · 11-15-2005, 22:53 | posts: 395 | Location: Philly

If I recall correctly, FS2004 has a bug where the AA settings in game don't work right and can kill performance so I always force the AA from my control panel rather than in game.

SupaSiLa · 11-15-2005, 23:07 | posts: 908 | Location: REMOVED BY ADMIN

Quote:

Originally posted by ViciousXUSMC
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1607379,00.asp

Straight up the best article to learn about each filtering type.

Bilinear-takes the higher res textures that are close to you and as they get farther away turns them into lower res textures to increase speed and performance in the game but its a straight jump from hi-res t low-res textures and if you have a good eye you can see where the textures change (4 pixels per texture)

Trilinear-same thing as bilinear except now it takes the point where the textures change from hi-res to low-res and blends them together to make the change in quality much less noticable. (8 pixels per texture) effectivly takes 2x the power of bilenear tho so maybe some slower computers will not do good with this depending on how visuals are set in a game.

Anisotropic Filtering- Its like a "smart" filter that the video cards iq determins what textures in your point of view in the game should be rendered as hi-res or low-res so its like trilinear sorta but uses more rendering power. It activly selects wich type of filtering should be used on each texture from 4pixel bilinear to 16pixel anisotripic and anything inbetween.

AA- Is the process in wich the video card smooths out jagged textures usualy low res textures have a jagged apperance but AA blends these into a more smooth or straight line and makes the game have a much more fluid look.

As far as these being hardware/software based its both. By default the video card lets each of these be set by the game (software) but if your game does not have a option for these filiters you may manualy select them from your video card fuctions under advanced display properties.

If you select a certian filter in the video card properties it will overide any software selected filters.

So you must leave it as aplication controlled or set it to a limit you feel comfortable with in the control panel.

Bi < Tri < AF

AA is seperate

ohh thank you for this

11-15-2005, 23:14 | posts: n/a

Ok i have a question......I have my card set so AF and AA are off, if i were to set a game with AF and AA on full, would it override my driver? or would it just not work?

orenda635 · 11-15-2005, 23:59 | posts: 6,867 | Location: GTA, Ontario, Canada

Quote:

Originally posted by Owlsphone
If I recall correctly, FS2004 has a bug where the AA settings in game don't work right and can kill performance so I always force the AA from my control panel rather than in game.

Not true. It used to be like this with the old Geforce FX cards but they sucked at AA anyway. I haven't seen any performance drop using 4x AA. with my 6600. I can even go to 8xS without much of a hit. It will lag with more detailed aircraft with a lot of polygons. Most addons don't cause problems though.

Something I should mention. Don't ever turn on the Anti-aliasing function in game on FS2004. For what I hear, its software rendered, and it sucks at it causing huge performance lags. It's Microsoft, what do you expect?

Owlsphone · 11-16-2005, 00:24 | posts: 395 | Location: Philly

Quote:

Originally posted by orenda635
Not true. It used to be like this with the old Geforce FX cards but they sucked at AA anyway. I haven't seen any performance drop using 4x AA. with my 6600. I can even go to 8xS without much of a hit. It will lag with more detailed aircraft with a lot of polygons. Most addons don't cause problems though.

Something I should mention. Don't ever turn on the Anti-aliasing function in game on FS2004. For what I hear, its software rendered, and it sucks at it causing huge performance lags. It's Microsoft, what do you expect?

lol, that's exactly what I said. Don't enable the anti aliasing IN the game.

ProfBP · 11-16-2005, 01:01 | posts: 1,306 | Location: US

I don't think its just FS2004, CFS2 has the same issue with AA, infact today is the first time I have ever used AA and AF. WOW, talk about an increase in image quality! But It did hit my frames. In a 2D panel view I went from 167FPS with no AF and no AA but with Tri and T&L down to 55FPS with everything on, AA and AF were set to 4.

Very good post!

orenda635 · 11-16-2005, 01:07 | posts: 6,867 | Location: GTA, Ontario, Canada

Quote:

Originally posted by ProfBP
I don't think its just FS2004, CFS2 has the same issue with AA, infact today is the first time I have ever used AA and AF. WOW, talk about an increase in image quality! But It did hit my frames. In a 2D panel view I went from 167FPS with no AF and no AA but with Tri and T&L down to 55FPS with everything on, AA and AF were set to 4.

Very good post!

You're still playing CFS2? Go out and get Pacific Fighters for god's sake.

ProfBP · 11-16-2005, 01:22 | posts: 1,306 | Location: US

I play Il2 AEP+FB+PF too. Which is all fine and good, but does that game have a Ki-44, a Fw-190D-11/D-12? How about flyable Ju-88s?

orenda635 · 11-16-2005, 01:52 | posts: 6,867 | Location: GTA, Ontario, Canada

Quote:

Originally posted by ProfBP
I play Il2 AEP+FB+PF too. Which is all fine and good, but does that game have a Ki-44, a Fw-190D-11/D-12? How about flyable Ju-88s?

True. I never liked CFS2 though. CFS1 was much better. CFS3, well... lets just say it wasn't Microsoft's proudest moment. I saw absolutely zero performance increase from going from a GF2 MX400, to a FX5200, to a 6600. Yep, the rendering engine is that bad.

ProfBP · 11-16-2005, 02:43 | posts: 1,306 | Location: US

Me CFS1 was ok, I really liked Janes WWII fighters, but CFS2 I guessed for me seemd like a mix of the two. I get a true flight sim, I get to add in pretty much what ever I want, fly around the world, and for me the graphics arn't that bad, true not up to snuff like FS9 and IL2, but there is still strong community support for it.

I don't have to deal with whining about what needs to be fixed in the game. With CFS2, and FS9, if you don't like how a plane flies, then you can figure out how to fix it. You don't have to go and complain to a board hoping the game creator will fix it.

Now as far as CFS3, IMOP, the only good thing those disks make are drink coasters. Just my opinion though.

Its a perfect example of show the minimum system requirments ont he bottom of the game box really do lie. And for CFS3, even the recomended specs were totally wrong!