Just take off your glasses? FXAA? Texture LOD?

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by nonexistent, Feb 1, 2013.

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FXAA or MSAA?

  1. FXAA please

    13 vote(s)
    16.3%
  2. MSAA please

    56 vote(s)
    70.0%
  3. Just took off my glasses :P

    11 vote(s)
    13.8%
  1. Lowki

    Lowki Master Guru

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    because GPU's are so damned piss weak and games coded so lazily we need to get every damned increase we can possibly get, so we end up so desperate (as perfectly manipulated by the likes of Nvida etc etc) we will pay absurd amounts to play games at 1080p maxed out.

    Poor.[/QUOTE]

    I would say its the game coding man because a 7970 has 2000 more shaders then an xbox 360 witch has 48 and were only playing ports at twice the frame rate and higher res. well atleast the most of us. I think it comes down to developers not caring to put in the time to make pc version of a game pc centric because its not that profitable. If they just do a fast port no changes basicly more sales of the same game for them. All these douche bags pirating every game....
     
  2. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Guest

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    It's not just that it's not as profitable, though that does play a large part in the process, it's also to do with the fact it costs more as when developing for the PC they have to test it with a crap load of hardware from AMD/Nvidia/Intel, it's more work for less money.
    If it was you and it was your job, would you work harder for less money, no sensible person will answer yes to that.

    It also isn't as simple as twice the framerate with a higher res, running a game at 1280x720 at 30fps works out as 27,648,000 pixels per second, while 1920x1080 at 60fps is 124,416,000 pixels per second.
    That means it takes 5 times the hardware to run a very basic port with no AA or AF.
    Add in AA/AF and the GPU need increases, even moreso with high res textures or high performance shader post processing and that is just DX9, once you go to DX11 then it's a whole new league of performance killing visual features.

    It would be handy if people actually knew what 4xSSAA was when they were talking about it, but they clearly don't if they think it should be it's normal for a modern game to run at 60fps at such a high setting.
     
  3. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Guest

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    As far as performance goes, our current HW is so much above requirements for 1080p even for next 4 years.

    Developers are just not capable/willing to make decent engine.
    I believe everyone remembers time when Painkiller came out. It was April 2004.
    Game looked better than many current AAA titles, It was so smooth even on average hardware.

    And they just used few things to make it happen: Geometry instancing, shader cloning

    New release of game just added higher resolution textures since we have 1080p displays everywhere and game still kicks ass.
     
  4. Lowki

    Lowki Master Guru

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    I think what it comes down to is were going to have to wait for the next generation of consoles then direct x 11 will take off.
     

  5. Lane

    Lane Guest

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    When i like better MSAA, quality wise... problem is still many games engine ( defferend render ) dont allow proper implementation of it... Then for peoples who have low performance hardware, its still a good possibility in term of usablity.

    On this i like Crysis3, you have the choice between FXAA, MSAA, SGAA etc.
     
  6. Nichtswisser

    Nichtswisser Guest

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    It's the same crap as the rest. It does not really work with moving stuff and it makes things blurry. Some of those shader pseudo-AA methods use a sharpening filter at the end of the process to reduce the blur effect, yet that also further reduces the already poor anti-aliasing those offer.

    Thank the gods for downsampling (OGSSAA), that looks great and works everywhere, even in games that use that crappy deferred rendering. Only downside is the performance hit. And sometimes things like UI elements get to small.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  7. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Guest

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    That is hardly a downside, that is just an effect of using something like downsampling.

    I did see TXAA in action last week and that is better quality than downsampling when it comes to motion, but it softens the image more than many would probably like.

    Personally i'm happy enough with FXAA/SMAA as i prefer a softer image, but that could well change when i upgrade the GPU.
     
  8. Nichtswisser

    Nichtswisser Guest

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    Well, UI elements you can't decipher because they are too small, normal consequence of downsampling or not, are a downside however you look at it.

    I have a Dell UltraSharp U2312HM with a 23" display, and as that monitor already comes with a rather high pixel density for a PC monitor, most in-game UI elements already aren't very big to begin with so with downsampling that becomes a real issue in some games.
     
  9. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Guest

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    True, i switched to a large TV a few years back so that is rarely a big issue for me personally.
     
  10. zarker99

    zarker99 Guest

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    Not if I knew I could get away with it, (and I wasn't too bothered about my conscience).

    And that's the point isn't it! As long as there's 'one born every minute', there'll be somebody around to milk them.

    meaning that if you're prepared to buy the substandard, there'll be a lot of people prepared to sell it to you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013

  11. GhostXL

    GhostXL Guest

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    FXAA and TXAA are both way more blurry than traditional MSAA, but FXAA can be faster. I'm not really sure what to make of TXAA, cuz its a blurry mess, and it takes a huge hit on performance.

    MSAA all the way, unless I have to use FXAA.
     
  12. IcE

    IcE Don Snow

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    MSAA for life. FXAA is only popular now because most people insist on gaming on low end hardware. Enthusiasts get shafted for the lowest common denominator. I mean, I guess it's acceptable if the engine literally won't support MSAA, but even then I have to ask why.
     
  13. The Mac

    The Mac Guest

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    msaa? why not SSAA WTF?

    less blury if u ask me....
     
  14. Nichtswisser

    Nichtswisser Guest

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    Not on NV hardware, on my GTX 670 at least MSAA is a little less blurry even when adjusting LOD. I Tested that with scrennshots in Skyrim and 4xAA.

    4x MSAA
    [​IMG]

    4xSGSSAA
    [​IMG]

    The difference in GPU usage in the overlay nicely shows that supersampling is running, and the stairs in the first MSAA screenshot are clearly less blurry.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
  15. Kuldebar

    Kuldebar Guest

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    I've been a big fan of MSAA up until recently, but MSAA fails at reducing aliasing on many in-game objects. I have grown to love FXAA.

    A good article that points out how revolutionary FXAA is can be found here.

    FXAA has all the benefits with very little downsides. The low performance costs alone make it it the running, the sheer effectiveness of it as a method to eliminate jaggies clinches the deal.

    Sure, if you run games at ridiculously high resolutions or can successfully downsample, more power to you; but the majority of gamers need to get off the nay-saying FXAA bandwagon and admit FXAA is very, very good.

    (SMAA has gotten a lot of good press but it isn't as effective in how it controls jaggies in the games I've tried it on.)
     

  16. Zareph

    Zareph Ancient Guru

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    ^ All of that. I'm also against FXAA in most games, unless there are still plenty of other antialiasing methods to choose from, as it yields terribly blurry results. In those games, I'd rather have no antialiasing at all. Unfortunately that isn't always an option in games with FXAA. I'm not against MLAA though, as it's only a slight step down from SMAA for me, and the techniques do have a certain similarity in how they work.

    Also, Nvidia's been advertising for TXAA. In the couple of games I've tried it in, it's either looked horrible (Crysis 3) or had a performance hit similar to SSAA or SMAA, while looking pretty identical (or worse). So is there actually anything good about it over the others?
    So far, my favourite is definitely SMAA. Love it. :)


    In response to Kuldebar, I'd say I've had the opposite kind of results. FXAA has had only a slight effect on eliminating jaggies, and had a huge blur effect on the whole picture, increasing with distance. A great example would be Guild Wars 2.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  17. PF Prophet

    PF Prophet Master Guru

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    i dont do fxaa or mlaa, SMAA or MSAA or downsampling(or better downsample+smaa)
     
  18. Lane

    Lane Guest

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    I have the feeling the lod is not correct there with SGSAA . ( still not full SSAA anyway )
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  19. Cave Waverider

    Cave Waverider Ancient Guru

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    I prefer Rotated Grid Super Sampling and use it at at least 4x in any game when on my AMD Radeon cards (Sparse-Grid Supersamling on Nvidia cards, but it's worse than the RGSSAA on the Radeons quality and performance wise). I've loved it since the 3dfx Voodoo 5 days and still love it on the Radeon cards.

    FXAA and company are far inferior. Better than nothing, but they still leave tons to be desired in terms of image quality to the more traditional Anti-Aliasing techniques.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  20. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    Don't understand why people downsample instead of applying SSAA through the drivers.
     

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