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Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by heymzey, Jan 30, 2012.

  1. TruMutton_200Hz

    TruMutton_200Hz Guest

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    Here's an excellent in-depth review of a typical, decent, mid-range IPS monitor:

    http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1302259660

    The review pays clear attention to the pros and cons of matte vs. glossy panel coating, which I think is always fairly important.

    And then there's this:

    Mid-range IPS monitors are good for casual gaming, to which I will also add I agree they're good enough if fast-paced games are not all that important to you but, if they are important to you, you're better off with 120 Hz TN even though I can understand the fact colour accuracy and overall image quality leaves alot to be desired on TN, and alot especially on 120 Hz TN. So you might want to aim for a fast, high end IPS monitor instead, after all. But then the main question will be, can you and do you want to afford one of those? My advice is to not also forget the fact the technology advances very rapidly. If it were my money on the counter, I'd either go for the Asus VG236H or wait.

    EDIT: Or better still, the VG236HE combined with this:
    http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-geforce-3d-vision2-wireless-glasses-kit-us
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2012
  2. LinkDrive

    LinkDrive Ancient Guru

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    Unfortunately the majority of the 120Hz monitors that are being sold online came out after I stopped researching them. However, the Acer GD235HZ has been out for a while now, and I've often thought about picking one up. My local Fry's Electronics has one on display right next to the IPS display stands, and I'm going to vouch that the IQ presented with this monitor is quite nice for a LCD ( almost as good as the Sony SDM-HS95P ). Also, it appears to be one of the most popular 120Hz monitors on the market. Personally, if I were to buy a 120Hz, it would be this.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009222
     
  3. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

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    That vibrancy ****s up colours. You can't then distinguish brighter tones from each others any more. If someone really wants to get 120Hz panel, Samsung is pretty much the top dog. However their idiotic display stands and lack of VESA mounting is a massive downside.
     
  4. LinkDrive

    LinkDrive Ancient Guru

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    Perhaps in your experience, but not in mine. If you think they mess up colors, then you're not adjusting the brightness and contrast accordingly, or you're increasing the vibrancy too much. But then again, we're basing the IQ of a monitor based off the eyes and preferences of different individuals. What works for me might not work for you. At least by making the suggesting to adjust the colors and contrast, the OP has something to take into consideration when he makes his purchase. Whether or not that'll work for him is entirely up to him. If he feels that tweaking the color settings is worth while, then who are you to say that he shouldn't be doing it?
     

  5. TruMutton_200Hz

    TruMutton_200Hz Guest

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    Well... I don't see any "vibrancy", nor oversaturation, on my LG 42LH5000 which happens to be a more than 2 years old TN based panel.

    As for the viewing angles, I don't see any colour-shift nor gamma-shift whatsoever. Not even, if I move several feet into whichever direction I please. That's while sitting at approx. 10 feet distance.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2012
  6. LinkDrive

    LinkDrive Ancient Guru

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    Assuming you're using an Nvidia GPU ( based off your listed specs ), you can find the settings in NVCP.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Sever

    Sever Ancient Guru

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    that might be changed this generation due to the newer hdmi standard.

    http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/7000/7970/Pages/radeon-7970.aspx

    amd lists the 7970 as capable of supporting 4k resolution via 3ghz hdmi 1.4a. even if it can only support that resolution at 30fps, 4k resolution at 30fps is more or less the same as 4-6 1080p displays running at 30fps, which should be enough bandwidth for one 1080p display to be running at 120hz.

    but im just speculating based on what im reading. havent seen the exact specifications of 3ghz hdmi 1.4a.
     
  8. TruMutton_200Hz

    TruMutton_200Hz Guest

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    I know. They're all at their defaults (Digital Vibrance set to 50%) for me.

    This was shot using my Sony Ericsson T700 cellphone:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    As you can see, life's good out-of-the-box. :D
     
  9. LinkDrive

    LinkDrive Ancient Guru

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    Ah ok! I misunderstood what you were saying, lol. :p
     
  10. scheherazade

    scheherazade Ancient Guru

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    Cool projector, but it'll cost like a new car.

    Also, being single link DVI, it'll be really low refresh rate at max rez.

    You can approximate the same thing using 3 cheap projectors using surround.

    -scheherazade
     

  11. TruMutton_200Hz

    TruMutton_200Hz Guest

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    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=21473092#post21473092
     
  12. UZ7

    UZ7 Ancient Guru

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    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001472

    Connectors
    Displayport, HDMI (they didnt list it but it also has DVI)

    [​IMG]

    It will look like either of those (display port mini and regular).
     
  13. Sever

    Sever Ancient Guru

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  14. nutyo

    nutyo Ancient Guru

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    What you should do is properly colour calibrate the monitor using something like Spectraview II Spyder 3. However obviously most people here are not going to want to spend that sort of money just for accurate colours, which is totally understandable. You should then set the monitor to native dvi signal and leave it. If your whitepoints are noticeably off then adjust the colour temparature of the monitor (on the monitor not the video card) until the white looks as white as it can to your eyes (always good to have a couple of reference screens in this case).

    The reason I am a big proponent of not using saturation and vibrancy controls used in videocard control panels is because they change the pure accuracy of the dvi signal and start giving a distorted colour gradient in an attempt to compensate for the monitor's inadequacy. The problem is that the way they do it means any adjustment completely destroys the colour accuracy of almost all of the colour range. I have done some work in image manipulation and when working with photos or renders, colour accuracy is king.

    In addition to this, adjusting the vibrancy in that way doesn't even fix the problem it is intended for. You monitor will never be able to physically display more colour than its colour gamut. So adjusting the vibrancy serves to cause colour crush where colours that were not intended to be as saturated as the end of range all start displaying exactly the same as end of range colour saturation. It causes a loss of detail and in some cases banding, in all gradients that near the edges of the monitor's colour gamut.

    If you are not concerned with colour accuracy then of course you can adjust the screen to look however you want. It is yours after all. However knowing that the image on my screen is not displaying an image as intended by the creator of that image, whether is UI or a game or a photo, rubs me the wrong way. If you do not like how a game or image looks you should modify the game (ex. lighting mods for skyrim) or the image (photoshop) not your monitor, the monitor should display the image with as much accuracy as possible. Then you don't end up trying to fix problems on an image that are the fault of your monitor, not the image.

    Actually Hilbert added that monitor calibration gradient to the start of all his reviews for exactly that reason. People had obviously increased the saturation of the colours on their monitors and were complaining that they could not see enough difference between the colours in the graphs Hilbert was using. That is exactly what colour crush does. The problem was on their end not Hilbert's.

    Why do I always write so much stuff...? :nerd:

    I am using an NEC 2490WUXi. It has a H-IPS panel. For a gaming display tomorrow based on prices and currently available IPS panels I would say go with a 120Hz TN. It is primarily for gaming after all. To be honest, if you have to ask for price don't bother getting an IPS for gaming. They just aren't worth the cost for most gamers.

    When I got my monitor I 24inch TNs were around ~$600. My monitor cost me $1300. But I got it for not just gaming, but my general rig that I also do work on. And that required and accurate display. If it was solely for a gaming rig, the cost wouldn't have been worth it. That said the NEC 2490WUXi is considered the best non-wide colour gamut monitor ever made and I don't regret my decision one bit. :D
     
  15. Veteran

    Veteran Ancient Guru

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    You dont need to buy an expensive calibrator,you just need to download one of the many calibrated profiles from the internet that people have already calibrated using expensive hardware/software,saves you alot of money time and effort.
     

  16. nutyo

    nutyo Ancient Guru

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    ...Umm and then I guess you steal their monitor too... because proper colour calibration is specific to the monitor it is produced on. That is the whole idea, it is to compensate for the variation in individual panels and how they behave.

    Taking someone else's ICC profile is, to put it delicately, close to pointless. Even from someone who has the exact same model of monitor there is no guarantee that it is going to be in any way more accurate than just running the native dvi signal with no alterations.
     
  17. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

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    Monitors are different. In my case even 2% will make bright colour look overblown (http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/contrast.php can't see the difference in right side colours any more). Adjusting the contrast/gamma/brightness causes banding and dark tones suffer a lot (you can't distinguish darker tones any more http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php). Last time I checked changing those also applied to fraps screenshots, which is extremely bad thing.
     
  18. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    Dual DVI and display port carry more bandwidth than HDMI and DVI, which is what 120hz needs.

    I'm pissed off that my card has only DVI-I (2) and mini-HDMI. So cant do 120hz. Still may get a s27a950 or 750 and use it @60 it until I upgrade my card. AMD are much more forward looking than Nv in connectivity. And connectivity will influence my card purchases from now on.
     
  19. UZ7

    UZ7 Ancient Guru

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    What you're looking for is DVI-D Dual Link
    [​IMG]

    Yes you need full Display Port or DVI-D (Dual Link), this is because 120Hz utilizes the bandwidth, HDMI can't do it because it will be 60Hz + Audio. Most 120Hz monitors will come with the cord.

    Display Port is just the new thing they're trying to push for, you're already starting to see new laptops with DP Mini instead of the VGA output.

    The difference between DVI an DVI-D is the amount of bandwidth, just think of it as D = Double Bandwidth and you'll need it if you want 120Hz.
     
  20. scheherazade

    scheherazade Ancient Guru

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    In regards to accuracy :

    Accuracy is important for designers... so that when one artist sends an image to another, they see the same thing.
    Also, 6 bit TN displays can have more banding. As a designer, it's hard to tell if the banding is in the display, or if it's in your data. IPS lets you see more of your data.

    Note : calibrating your display by printing a color card is a joke.
    Your printer also has to be calibrated.
    Calibrating your monitor to your printer is just taking one machine's errors and making them another machine's errors.

    For an end user, it's perfectly normal to tweak a display's settings to make it look the way you like it to look.
    "Accuracy" and "good looks" are not the same thing.
    What is most accurate, to 99% of people will not be what they think looks best.

    Most people will like to crank contrast, pick their favorite temperature, pick their favorite color profile, etc.
    In the end the display can look great, but if you were to compare the display to a color chart it would be pure fail.
    At the same time, if you calibrated your display to a color chart, you would find that brightness/contrast settings have to be set to 'wierd' numbers, and in the end the image looks 'meh'... just doesn't 'pop'.

    Just like boosting bass/treble in music.
    Accurate just doesn't sound as good as something that's EQ'd to emphasize the things you like most.

    If you're using a display for pleasure, just focus on a display with adequate contrast and vibrance to suit your liking.
    And make sure the display doesn't suffer color-banding at settings that give you your desired brightness/contrast.

    That said, IPS does tend to be naturally more vibrant than TN.
    Meaning that after you calibrate the display to be accurate, IPS doesn't look 'as bad' as TN would when calibrated.
    But with either IPS or TN, you'll tweak them to both look as good as they can, and both will be inaccurate/uncalibrated.


    In regards to specific displays
    (IIRC)
    750 has : -DVI, +Displayport, +HDMI
    950 has : +DVI, +Displayport, +HDMI

    Tests show that the 750 over HDMI has more input lag (~40ms) than the 950 over DVI (8/16ms) (Note : Each test was done by a different person on a different setup).
    No idea how the DP performs.



    The Samsung has the most complete RGB coverage of 120hz TN displays.
    Co-worker had this display in 23 inches. He returned it and changed to the VG236H.
    He says that he feels like the samsung's colors looked a little nicer, but the VG236H just looks better all-around.
    It does not support nvidia 3D vision.

    ASUS VG236HE and VG236H are the same monitor.
    Both support nvidia 3D vision.
    The H includes 3D vision glasses.
    The HE does not include 3D Vision glasses.
    I personally like this monitor a lot. It just looks good to me (after adjustment).
    I love deep blacks, and the black level is one of the best (Best of all 120hz monitors?).
    Candy colored games like dungeon defenders 'pop' with the strong light/dark.

    ASUS VG278H is the successor to the VG236H, BUT because it's matte finish, the monitor will [to the eye] look like it has worse contrast because of ambient diffusion.
    I like the size, but I wish the color/contrast was like the VG236H. The added size just makes up for the loss in visuals from the VG236H.
    Supports nvidia 3D vision.

    The ACER 27 has been bashed in some reviews, but it has a strong amount of happy users, and last I checked it was the best 'bang for the buck'.
    I haven't tried it, so I can't say if it's good or bad.
    Supports nvidia 3D vision.


    Note :
    The samsung's relatively poor black level matters more at night than in the day.
    The glossy finish will still make blacks look good in the day, and it's all win with the nicer color.
    At night, you could get a bit of a 'gray' feeling from the weak blacks.
    YMMV depending on how you use it.

    Personally, for 120hz 2D :
    23 : asus
    27 : samsung (Not impressed with the 278H, would like to use this one for a while and see how I like it, rather than just checking it out for a moment)

    But that's just me ...

    -scheherazade
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2012

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