ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q - How unlucky can you get?

Discussion in 'Computer Monitor Forum' started by Darren Hodgson, Jun 3, 2017.

  1. khanmein

    khanmein Guest

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  2. archie123

    archie123 Guest

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  3. archie123

    archie123 Guest

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    Oh and remember to turn off gsync if your benchmarking with synthetic software as it has quite a negative effect on results , oddly though on or off ingame and the differance is tiny
     
  4. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    Even though 165Hz works, the panel in this monitor has a "native" refresh rate of 144Hz. So it's not surprising that there might be some minor drawbacks when driving higher than it's native rate.

    I suspect 165Hz is mostly useful for playing games like CS:GO with vsync off and g-sync off.

    Also, the "best" refresh rate for the desktop is 120Hz. This is simply due to video playback. 120Hz can play all common video frame rates 1:1. 24FPS, 30FPS, 60FPS is played perfectly in 120Hz. In 144Hz, only 24FPS video is played 1:1. 30 and 60 will have judder. 165Hz cannot play any of these video frames rates 1:1 and always has judder. So, for the smoothest video playback, 120Hz is best.

    This does not apply to video players that can work with g-sync (but not many can; they usually have judder/stutter issues with g-sync due to using vsync as a timing source, which doesn't work with g-sync.) And even with players that work with g-sync, you'd need to always watch full-screen. Windowed-mode g-sync generally doesn't work with ANY video player.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017

  5. Darren Hodgson

    Darren Hodgson Ancient Guru

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    Thanks Archie and RealNC.

    The monitor has a Turbo button on the side that switches instantly between 60, 120 and 144/165 Hz. I guess this is a quick and convenient why to cap framerates in games? I haven't checked it yet but it would be useful if it retained the setting for when you next turn on the PC.

    I'm still a little confused as to whether I need to force v-sync globally in the NVIDIA profile as games like FIFA 17 run well above 165 FPS (this is at 4K as well with 4xMSAA!), up to 230 FPS, in fact. While I didn't notice any tearing, I assypume that v-sync is not enabled otherwise the framerate would be capped at 165 FPS, right?

    Mafia III is an oddity though; set to max settings at 2560x1440 with an unlimited framerate and v-sync off the game itself was running fine (though the camera is unbelievably twitchy, something I do not recall happening on my Dell display) at upto 100 FPS but thee was horrendous screen tearing in the menus because the framerate was 200-280 FPS. I ended up having to enable v-sync in the game to get rid of it.

    So presumably games and benchmarks will exhibit screen tearing if they run higher than 165 FPS unless you force v-sync globally? I always though G-SYNC worked best with v-sync disabled so doesn't forcing it globally prevent that? :3eyes:
     
  6. Darren Hodgson

    Darren Hodgson Ancient Guru

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    Oh and for anyone interested in buying this monitor and put off by the reports of bad quality control, particularly in regards to backlight bleed, then I can confirm that my display appears to be fine and if there is any then it is minimal at the 50% brightness setting I am using. I tested out a large number of games in a dark room at night with the lights out and there were plenty of black screens during loading, etc. However, the only thing I saw was slight IPS glow in the four corners which changed as I shifted viewpoint (so it definitely isn't backlight bleed otherwise that would remain consistent no matter what angle you view it at). The panel was manufactured in August 2016 surprisingly; I was expecting it to be newer to be honest.

    P.S. I guess mine had some bad QA as the UK cloverleaf plug was missing from the box!
     
  7. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    No. That's the refresh rate. The frame rate the game renders at is completely independent of it.

    To cap your frame rate, you need to cap your frame rate :p

    I don't want to spam the same links over and over again on this forum. If you're interested in more information, you should check them out.
     
  8. Darren Hodgson

    Darren Hodgson Ancient Guru

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    Sorry about that.

    Surely if you force v-sync globally in the NVIDIA profile then the framerate will be capped at the refresh rate you set using the Turbo button? No? Isn't that how v-sync works or are you saying that G-SYNC overrides v-sync until it exceeds the maximum refresh rate of this display, i.e. 144 or 165 Hz? :3eyes:

    /goes off to read links
     
  9. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    The whole point is that you don't want to use vsync, because it adds input lag. You need to cap your frame rate to avoid using vsync.

    However, if vsync input lag is OK with you (165Hz vsync has much less input lag compared to 60Hz vsync), then everything is fine. You can leave things as-is and not use a frame rate cap. G-Sync will be disabled once you exceed 163FPS, and you'll be using vsync. This happens automatically. You ONLY need to cap your frame rate if you want to make sure g-sync is used at all times.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
  10. archie123

    archie123 Guest

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    Edit .... Seems I repeating what's already been said :)
     

  11. archie123

    archie123 Guest

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    I had no issues with mine either it was perfect but I think in the early days there were alot of issues with them and those YouTube videos are still doing the rounds . I did have issues with a previous one though pg278q and found Asus to be a bit poor on the customer service side
     
  12. Darren Hodgson

    Darren Hodgson Ancient Guru

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    Again thank you for the replies.

    I have decided to leave v-sync OFF globally and just cap any games that go above the max. refresh rate of 165 Hz, whether in-game or in the menus, e.g. I set 160 fps for FIFA 17 and Mafia III. I haven't tested yet but I would guess that would fix any tearing issues in the both (even if I never noticed any in FIFA). In-game I will leave v-sync OFF.

    I must say that G-SYNC really is revolutionary IMO. I loaded up The Witcher 3 yesterday, a game that I played COMPLETELY maxed out at 2560x1440 with all the Hairworks settings too, including 8xMSAA. On a GTX 1080 Ti that's pretty much a locked 60 fps.

    Well I decided to ramp up the resolution to 3840x2160 with the same settings and while the game dipped down to the low 50s fps during the quest I was playing it felt 100% smooth as if it was running at a locked 60 fps still. This quest I was doing involved fighting loads of enemy soldiers and toward the end I was joined by two vampires; the game never stuttered or felt laggy. Really impressive stuff considering Hairworks was on. Even the cutscenes with close ups of Geralt, which usually caused the framerate to plummet to the low 30s fps on my previous GTX 1080 FTW, held solid here and remained smooth throughout even when they dropped to the low 40s fps at one point. The experience would not have been this enjoyable on a 60 Hz display due to either screen tearing or stuttering.

    I also tested GTA V, again with everything maxed, including the Advanced Options (Resolution scaling left alone though) and FXAA/4xMSAA/TXAA plus Ultra grass at 2560x1440 and the game again felt like it was running at 60 fps even while driving through areas with lots of foliage (where the framerate can drop to the low 40s fps).

    Really love G-SYNC. :D
     
  13. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    There's no reason to disable v-sync in the nvidia panel. It's beneficial to have it enabled. It only has positives and no negatives.
     
  14. Darren Hodgson

    Darren Hodgson Ancient Guru

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    Well the recommended setting for v-sync in the global profile is 3D application controlled so that is what I left it at (it's not set to Off, sorry for the confusion). If I force it on then any in-game benchmarks I run are going to be capped at 165 FPS.

    I did see some slides of G-SYNC settings from an older driver where v-sync on was the recommended setting though but I assume that is no longer the case since the green NVIDIA icon is no longer next to On in the latest driver?

    I read the links you provided and some other articles and some claim that forcing v-sync increases input latency, albeit only slightly, so should v-sync be on or off in the global profile?
     
  15. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    Set FPS cap plus VSYNC ON in NVCPL.

    Vsync isn't actually on unless FPS = refresh rate.

    It adds zero input lag if under refresh rate.
     

  16. archie123

    archie123 Guest

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    Nvidia driver used to force vsync by default for gsync monitors , this stopped a few driver releases ago , v sync does increase latency after your fps goes over refresh rate and for me its very noticable , here is a good video explaining it all https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L07t_mY2LEU
     
  17. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    It should be on. It does not increase latency, not even slightly. (This was tested.)

    The only case where it increases latency, is when you'd get tearing. You can get tearing with g-sync with games that have fluctuating frame times. Keeping vsync enabled allows g-sync to "steer" the tear line outside the visible region of the screen. Yes, this means it adds latency IF there was going to be a tear line. But that is the whole point of g-sync; add just enough latency to make the tear line invisible. And that is the point of frame capping too; add just enough frame time latency to make sure g-sync can work.

    Saying that setting vsync "on" increases latency is a bit like saying that hitting the break pedal in your car in order to avoid hitting a pedestrian, reduces your speed. Well, it does. That's the plan. If you don't reduce speed, you're gonna hit the pedestrian :) In the same manner, if g-sync doesn't delay the frame, it's gonna tear. The delay is what you want, because you don't want tearing. If there's no need to delay a frame, then nothing happens. Not ALL frames are delayed. Only those that would tear.

    To not get latency at all, you need to disable both g-sync and v-sync.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  18. Darren Hodgson

    Darren Hodgson Ancient Guru

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    Thanks again. I think I now understand how the technology works and it seems to be working fine in all the games I've tested so far. What I've done is set V-Sync to On in the global profile and removed the 60 fps cap I used in many games on my 60Hz Dell display to force even framepacing. I also enabled the G-SYNC indicator and the refresh rate OSD display on my monitor to see what happens when I play games. I've then changed the settings in every game I've played to set 165 Hz and 165 fps or unlimited framerates with v-sync off plus triple buffering disabled.

    FIFA 17 for example, which I also mentioned in my G-SYNC Questions thread, loads at 60 Hz then switches to 165 Hz once the game starts but G-SYNC appears to only be enabled during gameplay. Oddly, this bit of the game runs at 165 fps almost constantly (at 4K with 4xMSAA too!) and the only dips below that are during replays and cutscenes (such in The Journey) where it will drop to 90 - 120 fps. G-SYNC appears disabled for these parts although I'm not sure why. However, they appear to run smoothly and don't judder. Every other game I've tested though shows G-SYNC enabled at all times right from loading it.

    It's amazing to see how much of my card is wasted on limiting the framerate to 60 fps even when playing maxed out games at 2560x1440. Some games still run at up to double the 60 fps framerate or as high as 165 fps (FIFA 17). I've even been able to set 4K natively and still have the game run over 60 fps. Yet the games remain smooth and responsive at almost all times. I say almost because I have noticed some tiny amounts of stutter in a few games but I suspect that is either an engine issue or hiccups to do with streaming data from a 7,200rpm hard drive. That said, these games all run better than they did at 60 Hz and 60 fps, even those were I had to force a 60 fps cap to fix the bad framepacing.

    G-SYNC really is amazing and it is a real shame that you can only see it for yourself by actually playing a game for real on a G-SYNC display. It's something that cannot be shown.

    Incidentally, what happens when you use ShadowPlay to record footage of a game running using G-SYNC? Would it appear to be stutter due to the way video is captured at a fixed rate (30 or 60 fps)?
     
  19. RandomDriverDev

    RandomDriverDev Guest

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    ips glow is yellow
    backlight bleed is white
     
  20. Darren Hodgson

    Darren Hodgson Ancient Guru

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    It's definitely IPS glow I'm seeing as it moves and disappears as I shift my head around. Backlight bleed doesn't do that.
     

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