8GB RAM with NO PAGEFILE CLUB or TOPIC (lol)

Discussion in 'Operating Systems' started by Mr.Bigtime, Apr 20, 2009.

  1. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    If you have a look at my last post you'll see Everest says I have a 3.5 Gb page file, but In reality I have it turned off.. Windows is still using a page file the only thing is that it's not on my HDD it's in my RAM....

    I don't know how an app can tell weather a PC's PF is on the HDD or in RAM, but if it can then do you think creating a virtual drive would fool an app that needs a pagefile?
    Guess you'll know if you make a virtual drive....just see how you go - only one way to find out.

    What apps are you using that need one?
     
  2. sepulchre

    sepulchre Master Guru

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    I have my P/file disabled and have done so for a few years now.

    I think if you have ram of 4gig or more and still have p/file errrors then there is something wrong with your setup because unless you run a lot of apps at once you will not run out of mem.

    Please test this theory it is easy.
    Just try running 100 programs at once and see what happens to your mem.
     
  3. Cybermancer

    Cybermancer Don Quixote

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    I'm not necessarily running one right now, but every now and then I'm using older applications that might need one. Again: that's what I read. I'm just trying to learn a bit more about this. :)

    Anyway. Thanks a lot, Pillmonster and sepulchre. Eventually, I'll give it a shot and turn it off completely to see how it goes. For right now I moved it from my SSD to my WD Raptor. :cool:
     
  4. Decane

    Decane Ancient Guru

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    Guys, if Windows automatically used RAM as swap space upon having the PF 'disabled', then why do you think ramdisks exist to simulate that purpose? It's possible to tweak Windows to use virtual memory as little as possible, but you won't prevent Windows from using a pagfile by disabling it; pagefile.sys will not cease to exist on the hard-drive. Also: where do you think the data that is paged comes from? Your hard-drive! That means there will still be bottlenecks even with a ramdisk -- initially, the data is written from your hard-drive, and if there's lots of it, there will be slowdowns.

    The optimal solution would be an SSD + virtual ramdisk, but even then, the SSD would somewhat bottleneck the ramdisk.

    Cybermancer: Google SuperSpeed RamDisk Plus.
     

  5. Cybermancer

    Cybermancer Don Quixote

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    Interesting, Decane.

    I did google it and am quite surprised RamDisk Plus costs $99.95 for the Vista 64-Bit version. Sure, quality has its price, but with Windows 7 around the corner, I'm not so sure if those $100 wouldn't be better invested into the new OS.

    Do you use RamDisk Plus? Do you think something like a RamDisk makes actually sense?
     
  6. Decane

    Decane Ancient Guru

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    I tried it for a short while, and yes, there was a small boost in OS navigation speed, but I surely would not pay $100 for it. Also, I tested Fallout 3 performance with it, and it was virtually identical to just having a fixed swap space on my HD. In the end, I think a ramdisk is more beneficial to users who tend to leave their PC on for 24+ hours, hence its more frequent use in servers. I just find it funny how so many people swear by keeping their pagefile 'disabled' since it brings them 'superior performance' when even a ramdisk will hardly bring about any noticeable improvements. However, like I stated earlier, if the PC is constantly powered up, data does not need to be re-written into virtual memory each time an application is run, which may constitute noticeable performance gains.

    If you're interested in trying it out, I suggest you do -- the trial is free, it won't break your PC, and the program is pretty "clean" in the regard that it only creates a system file which you can delete after you're done with the program. If nothing else, you'll be able to form your own opinion on the usefulness of a ramdisk. ;)
     
  7. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    Um, no mate it doesn't... Once the PF is disabled the OS does not use the HDD it uses RAM for swap spce.

    Also regarding the pagefile.sys - yes it does cease to exist, all you need to do is delete it from whichever drive you have your PF on. (of course you need to disable it before you can delete it though)......

    EDit Yeah do know what you mean about the info being loaded into ram initially, but that's different to the RAM needing extra space on the drive.... I mean basically if you don't have a PF your whole application loaded into RAM to start with
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2009
  8. Decane

    Decane Ancient Guru

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    Source: Koroush Ghazi, TweakGuides Tweaking Companion, WinXP, p.64
     
  9. Cybermancer

    Cybermancer Don Quixote

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    Makes sense and is about what I expected, tbh. I might try RamDisk Plus one time, but as far as I'm concerned, I'm pretty happy with the pagefile being enabled and on the WD Raptor - at least for now.

    I already suspected that either disabling the pagefile or using a RAM disk wouldn't give me any magical speed increases (considering my usage of the OS and its setup anyway). It's just interesting to hear/read what other people have to say and what their experiences are.

    Thanks a lot! :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2009
  10. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    Ok but where does it say it uses the HDD.

    All that really says is that if you disable your PF and windows runs outta ram it won't automatically use your HDD, therefore you PC will crash....

    Can you please give me a link ....




    Here is one from the horses mouth...the MSDN website....


     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2009

  11. smnoamls

    smnoamls Maha Guru

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    annoying flame war starter here.

    Basically, even if you disable the page file, windows will always use the hard drive for some caching.
    Cant be helped.
    Some ram writes it sees as too volatile, it wont trust the ram in case of an unexpected crash. The SYSTEM ( 99% not the app ) will demand a write be done to a fixed non volatile memory.
    If you force the non existant page file to a ram drive, then yes, you are fooling ( at least in XP ) the system to write its compulsry page file into ram.
    It will speed it up.
    But not matter what you do, windows will always ALWAYS write some data to hard drive while working.
    Its for your safety.
    And ours.
    Dont run with scissors kids.
     
  12. SickBoy254698

    SickBoy254698 Master Guru

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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Pillmonster [​IMG]
    Um, no mate it doesn't... Once the PF is disabled the OS does not use the HDD it uses RAM for swap spce.

    Also regarding the pagefile.sys - yes it does cease to exist, all you need to do is delete it from whichever drive you have your PF on. (of course you need to disable it before you can delete it though)......


    Quote:
    Although there are many differing opinions as to how big the pagefile should be, it is important not to 'disable' your pagefile regardless of how much RAM you have. Windows and certain programs need a pagefile in order to operate correctly. Setting the pagefile to zero does not force Windows to use your physical RAM. Windows Memory Management does not work that way.
    Source: Koroush Ghazi, TweakGuides Tweaking Companion, WinXP, p.64

    I was hoping someone would post this I just didn't know where to find it. Like it says. Disabling the paging file doesn't force files into RAM. Even if you disable the PF or set it to 0 Windows will still use it. I promise you. It wont use much, but it will still use the HD.

    In the end though guys, we are arguing about a performance issue that is very inconsequential in the grand scheme of your PC's overall speed. Just wanted to point that out.
     
  13. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    Ok did you see the link I just posted from Microsoft Develpers website?


    Sorry but I have to disagree there.



    Yes, no one is disputing that, but writing data to a disk is not the same as using a disk as virtual ram now is it? ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2009
  14. Cybermancer

    Cybermancer Don Quixote

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    Pillmonster, nobody doubts whether it's working for you or others if you disable the pagefile. :)

    In the quote you used in your post above, it also says: "(...) unless one is required by a specific application." Hence, leaving it on - even if it's just as a safety precaution, makes sense, imo.

    As SickBoy254698 mentioned, this discussion is more or less about the performance and maybe, in the case of SSDs, about the wear and tear of the drive.

    What I think is obvious though, is that whether you disable your pagefile, leave it enabled or use a RAM disk, the performance is more or less the same. Using a RAM disk might, under certain conditions, provide a performance increase.
     
  15. WhiteLightning

    WhiteLightning Don Illuminati Staff Member

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    Ive tried it years ago, gave nothing but problems for me. pc freezing, etc. i guess the applications that i use , really needed a pagefile, that or i really did something wrong lol :)
    i cant remember which applications though, photoshop comes to mind, but im really not sure.
     

  16. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    Lolz looks like this thread has been officially hijacked....


    Look, It makes no difference to me whether you, (Darth Mancer) Darth Cane, & the coffee boy (Sick Puppy), or any of your Imperial Paging File Forces from the planet Hard Drive want to fight the HDD space invading pagefile.sys monsters that are invading.
    :vader:
    The good guys on the other hand, (that's us) Mr BigBalls, Xr 6cpants and the Pill Monster from 'Nam, free of the nasty I/O Write gremlins and pagefile.sys monsters, run through strawberry fields holding hands with the Ewoks and smoking a lot of Ewok weed and popping a lot of Ewok Pills at the cool dance parties they have on Endor. While talking to the girls about our big hard drives.... :mhp::flip2:



    I'm just saying if you guys don't want to that's fine no one is forcing anyone, but people shouldn't knock or naysay things till they've actually tried it themselves that's all.... particularly if it's just info they've heard somewhere and are recycling it (not you Decane). You know what I'm getting at I think we had a convo about this a couple of months ago......;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2009
  17. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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  18. Mr.Bigtime

    Mr.Bigtime Ancient Guru

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    Let me make it clear.

    PF.sys exist on HDD but how? When i disable it first i make it 16 MB and then restart my pc and make it DISABLE. so no way that OS uses HDD as PF...and when i load games i hear no BZZZZ sound and no HDD light is flashing in my CASE..i mean as i t happens PF is on..it just reads from HDD and maybe writes a bit for OS operations..but its clear..PF is on RAm..and as mentioned here, EVEREST shows that PF is on PHYSICAL RAM so windows creates it on RAM.
     
  19. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    ^You can delete it if you want. It'll be on the root whichever drive your pf was on.

    You'll need to uncheck the Hide System Files folfer option though to see it.
     
  20. Mr.Bigtime

    Mr.Bigtime Ancient Guru

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    yeah i see it but never thought to delete lol...let me do it today :)
     

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