Guru3D PC Buyers Guide Winter 2012

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Dec 10, 2012.

  1. deefop

    deefop Member Guru

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    Dumb statement, I've already made it clear that I avidly read every article on this website.

    Your opinion presupposes that any PC incapable of playing the newest game on the most modern graphics engine at maximum settings with 60 FPS doesn't qualify as a gaming PC.

    My PC plays far cry 3 fairly well, but I can't play at max settings and still maintain smooth gameplay that is necessary for an FPS. Does that mean my system isn't a gaming machine?

    A Phenom II with a 6850 will absolutely be able to play far cry 3 if you sacrifice some of the IQ settings. And that's the point of a budget gaming PC.

    If you're ONLY advising parts based on what will allow you to play the most modern games with the highest settings possible then you are NOT explaining how to build a budget gaming PC, and you should just come out and say that. By the by, notice that the 7850 only pulls 17 FPS on that chart? 17 FPS is choppy and completely unplayable, so by your standards the 7850 build wouldn't qualify as a gaming PC either.
     
  2. David

    David Ancient Guru

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    Clearly you haven't used an SSD. Really the speed difference (and reduced load times) and improved responsiveness of a computer running an SSD compared to a HDD is well worth the tradeoff. I understand some people like to have 100 games installed at one time, that's fine, go ahead and get the HDD if that's what really matters. But to everyone else I would go with the SSD.
     
  3. CronoGraal

    CronoGraal Ancient Guru

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    highly recommend this site for monitor reviews and guidance

    http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/

    that is, until the guru's get an inhouse monitor testing crew :D
     
  4. deefop

    deefop Member Guru

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    I have a 250GB SSD in my desktop and a 120GB SSD in my laptop.

    So for you a budget gaming PC needs to be able to pull unrealistic framerates in the most modern games, and it also needs to be able to boot into windows in 5 seconds flat?

    Load times in games are very fast to begin with, with several exceptions, such as MMO's like WoW or SW:TOR. But once the game is loaded in memory everything is loading from your memory which far surpasses your SSD to begin with in terms of speed. For normal games or FPS's the benefit of an SSD is very small.
    If you play WoW all time and want to put it on your SSD then sure, you'll notice a huge difference when you dont have to look at a loading screen anymore, but again, that's a luxury that you can't afford in a budget gaming build.

    My SSD is my favorite component in my entire PC, but if I was building on a budget it wouldn't have made the list.

    Your recommendation will give someone the option to have a handful of games installed and nothing else. What a stupid limitation to have in any PC, budget or otherwise.

    If you recommend an SSD for a mid end or high end build it's fine because you supplement the SSD with a large HDD, as I do.
    In a low end build it makes no sense whatsoever.

    I noticed you also skirted over every other point I brought up.
    A corsair H60 in a budget build, where you recommended 2 Ivy bridge CPU's with locked multipliers and no overclocking options, and therefore nonexistant heat issues? Sure, lets spend an extra 50$ for a cooler that we will never utilize.

    It's because of guides like this that the myth of "gaming computers are too expensive" even exists.
     

  5. David

    David Ancient Guru

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    I do believe we have very different ideas of what a gaming machine is. You are looking to the absolute budget, what is the absolute lowest cost you can spend and still be able to play games (though some IQ compromises may have to be conceded)? It's a certainly valid way to approach the problem, I obviously am a bit different in my approach.

    I view building a new gaming PC as an investment. I want the machine that's going to last the longest amount of time for the money I have paid. I want to do it without having to sacrifice IQ settings if at all possible. I don't want to find out in 6 months that my machine can't play the latest and greatest game I've been waiting for. This is why my guides target resolutions and not dollar values.

    And no for 2560x1600 the 7850 wouldn't qualify for gaming for Far Cry 3 by my standards.
     
  6. David

    David Ancient Guru

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    Haven't skirted, you put up a wall of text and I'm taking my time addressing each point. Patience. Hilbert added the Corsair H60 recommendation and I agree with you, it makes little sense unless you want to move ahead and get the more expensive 3570K and want to do overclocking. I myself only use air cooling.
     
  7. David

    David Ancient Guru

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    I've seen the 128 GB Samsung 830 I recommended for as low $70 USD. The only "luxury" you're giving up is storage space. As I've said before if you absolutely need the space, get an HDD. But otherwise, budget or not SSD is the only way to go.
     
  8. deefop

    deefop Member Guru

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    I guess my point is, if you're trying to build a PC that's going to last years and not have issues playing any game at high resolutions then it doesn't qualify as a budget PC.

    When people come to me or others for help on ESEA or whatever forum to build a cheap PC we look for budget parts that will get the job done, and provide at least some upgrading power for the future.

    The parts in that budget build would probably easily run you 600 or 700$ and the reality is that a lot of people want to play games but dont want to spend that kind of money.

    If you're building the system to NOT have to sacrifice on any IQ settings than how can it be considered a budget system? The definition of building within a budget(any budget, whether it's 300$ or 3000$) means you have to constrain yourself.
    If you define the build by it's actual performance then the budget is no longer your limiting factor, you've substituted that out for performance being the limiting factor and then you've stated that you want no limits on performance, which means you have no limiting factor!
    If I built my computer that way I would have 2 660TI's in SLI and I'd run everything maxed out.
     
  9. deefop

    deefop Member Guru

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    I think your definition of luxury is the opposite of most peoples in this example...

    Storage space is a necessity, not a luxury. High speed/performance is a luxury.
    I'm not talking about 3TB of storage either, but you need to have enough space that your system can actually function. It's 2012, does anyone really wanna spend time going through your programs list and deciding what you can keep and what to get rid of? 500GB would probably be considered a low amount of hard drive space in todays day and age, but 128GB is just not even enough to work with. Diablo 3 takes up 11GB of space on my drive... 10% of a drive for one program is too much if you dont have any other space. Plus you can't fill an SSD past like 75% if you want it to continue functioning at the speeds that you bought it for in the first place, so that 128GB is really like 90ish of usable space.
     
  10. SoloCreep

    SoloCreep Guest

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    People want to know how low they can go PC built for games that are recently released, not games from 5-10 years ago. This guide seems just fine for a budget PC that can play some oldies but goodies and some of todays titles. Thats what people want. They want to play the newer, cooler, more popular games and some people want to do it on a budget. What some of you are recommending just isnt possible at 30fps.
     

  11. deefop

    deefop Member Guru

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    I think some of us are so used to good high end computer components that we forget that the lower components are capable parts as well... I was rocking an AMD 6000+ 3.0ghz and a 512MB 9800GT until the very end of 2010 and I played all modern games. Even metro 2033 when it first came out. I didn't play it at 1080p with high IQ settings but I still played it!
     
  12. mohiuddin

    mohiuddin Maha Guru

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    Totally agree with @deefop .
    Every point/logic of his posts in this thread is not only valid but also worthy enough to be considered in any future gaming-guide article.
    Low-budget portion in this guide is just not right.
    I would rather put these on the low-budget section>>

    1. Amd fx6300 /fx4170
    2. Cooler master hyper 212+ cpu cooler
    3. 6850hd/7770hd graphics card
     
  13. naike

    naike Ancient Guru

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    That would entirely depend on your budget.
    Say you only have 350€ or something, for that money it's best to go with the integrated graphics, it isn't that bad. You can play even more demanding games at 720 resolution.
    Also in my opinion something like the Phenom II 955BE would be a better choice for gaming than the i3 3220, you can overclock it like crazy and it's like 40€ less or something, and if you go with the AMD, you can get a really good AM3 motherboard for little money, thus giving you more room for GPU which will obviously benefit gaming more.
     
  14. PhazeDelta1

    PhazeDelta1 Guest

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    Lets be real. If your going to build a computer for gaming, don't half ass it. Save up the money and do it right. If you're limiting your budget to only 350€, you're better off to just buy a console and either pocket the rest or put it towards accessories.
     
  15. naike

    naike Ancient Guru

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    Well, a computer for 350€ plays all the games with console quality, so if someone wants to get into PC gaming but is on a budget I see nothing wrong, all the deals are on the PC anyway.

    I don't get why people always tell not to "half ass" a gaming machine, people half ass all the time unless they are building the best possible everything.
    Like, I've been doing fine with my photo/video editing on this machine, and it's a super half assed productivity configuration, I'm happy with it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012

  16. IPlayNaked

    IPlayNaked Banned

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    I tend to agree that the low-end computer is tending pretty hard toward the mid-range.

    Cut the 8GB down to 4GB. Cut the 128GB SSD down to a 1TB HDD. No need for a CPU cooler on a non-OC'd machine, cut that out. Finally, an i3 is probably just an ok choice. Move it down to a Phenom II or something else. Anyway, point is, money could be saved on the CPU/Motherboard side without giving up a lot.

    This computer could perform almost the same at a lower price. Just the definitive ones I suggest would probably cut off almost 200 dollars. Or, if you wanted to maintain that price target, you could get a better GPU, which would make gaming better anyway.

    Also, why doesn't it include the cost of Windows? No one's gaming on Linux. With the cost of Windows, shipping/tax, you're looking at a price dangerously close to 1000 USD for a "budget" computer. That's all wrong.
     
  17. Agonist

    Agonist Ancient Guru

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    Reading all this, David you are completely utterly missing his point.
     
  18. smashly

    smashly Master Guru

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    Thanks for the buying guide.
    Low End guide does need some amendments imho
    +1 for GA-Z77MX-D3H mobo
    I use the Non TH version, supports Sli/Crossfire and it's been the best bang for little bucks board I've ever had.

    CPU cooler definitely should of listed CM Hyper 212 Evo.
    Even on a non oc cpu it's cheap enough price, runs cooler then a reference cooler and best of all it'll be silent in comparison to reference cooler.
    Due to it's low price to me would be justified even on a low end build.

    Memory maybe add G.Skill Ares range of memory.
    As it's Low profile heat spreaders and low price make it excellent value for money.

    As for the video card I think 7850/7870 is more mid range card.
    Low end build I be more inclined 7770 card.

    Maybe if the guide was written by using ranges then hard set low/med/high, then it would be more agreeable.
    eg: Low End, Low to Med, Med to High, High End

    This way it's a little more flexible as to what hardware fits into.
    A lot of pc hardware now days borders in between the lines of Low/Med and Med/High
    Trying to class some products as hard set Low/Med/High and opinions really start to conflict.
     
  19. Veeshush

    Veeshush Maha Guru

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    That's how I was feeling. I thought the low end was fairly high end too. Very surprised not a single AMD cpu was recommended. http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/far_cry_3_graphics_performance_review_benchmark,7.html
    I don't know if I'd lose sleep over just having a top end AMD that places itself still in the top 10 in most benches I see on this site. But then again, I'd buy/build a new machine with upgrade potential and I have no idea if AMD will actually make up the difference anytime soon.

    SSDs are nice and I'd want one just so I'd never have to defrag again/maybe speed up virus scans, and probably one day I'll get a nice one, but exactly that. I don't get the whole "look how fast my PC loads!" fetishism. Mine boots and as it does I get my coffee, which I'd do SSD or not.

    dood u ned 3 monitorz and the 3d sTEROOOOOSCOOPE and if anythin is over 3 yearz old it's a motherfu~ pentium II grandpa email reading crapbox! But yeah, there's stuff that's really nice to have and then there's what you need, and you got it right.

    My guide: Buy a damn good motherboard, a good PSU and a case you like and everything will revolve around those choices. Then you can do what I try to do and just slowly upgrade everything else to the max the motherboard will let you.
     
  20. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    I'm surprised the 680 was recommended over the 670 given the similar performance and big difference in price....
     

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