Creative Sound Blaster Z Series

Discussion in 'Soundcards, Speakers HiFI & File formats' started by IanM, Aug 15, 2012.

  1. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

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    Yeah, DAC specs are different that the actual output since at least something gets lost after it comes out of the DAC but it's nice to see such a boost compared to the Recon3D.

    I might actually pull the trigger and get Zx or ZxR. The volume knob can be handy since the thing on my keyboard isn't that convenient with its two step volume change. I hope that this card would have better way to adjust the volume since even 5% Windows volume is rather loud (and the sound stops at 4%; headphone amp out is too loud at any volume level).

    I wonder what's the driver situation with my current card in Windows 8... I should be able to get Windows 8 next week from Dreamspark Premium.
     
  2. IanM

    IanM Guest

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    I am confused about these new cards. If you can excuse such a vague question: I remember reading threads about the Recon3D and some of the more knowledgable posters saying that there wasn't much point in Creative offering 'high end' versions of the Recon3D because there is a certain limitation built in to the 'quad core' chip i.e. since you can't change the key component/output from the chip, swappable op amps and/or higher quality DACs would be utterly pointless?

    I can't find the old posts with search so probably I will have to go through the Recon3D threads again, but have I misremembered? does anyone else remember this type of discussion?
     
  3. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    There are lots of pointless conversations :)
    It needing or not needing a quad core processor has zero effect on sound quality.
    It might change effect processing power but it has nothing to do with DACs and opamps.

    As for a better DAC and opamps being pointless, that may depend what you are comparing (ie if they are of similar quality).
    But in this case it looks like they have put some effort in, results are yet to be heard.
    Its sure to beat the DAC in AV amps except cherry picked high end gear.

    I use a very high quality external stereo DAC and have been waiting for a good 5.1 DAC to complement it.
    The DAC and analogue components can make a HUGE difference!
     
  4. IanM

    IanM Guest

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    so true...

    ...anyway, I started going through some of the old threads with 'Recon3D' in the title and so far I found this post: it lists Daniel_K's notes on Recon3D and the SounCore3D chip. My highlight:

    Now, I think this might be the point I was remembering - if this integrated DAC is the weak link and it can't be changed or bypassed because it is embedded, then what use are other high quality components?
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2012

  5. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    PCI-E HD audio controller is the clue.
    Its not part of the audio processor.
     
  6. IanM

    IanM Guest

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    I've modified the quote to include the heading and all bullets, but I read it as the embedded DSP and integrated DAC are part of the 'quad-core' procssor?

    I suppose I'm not too fussed about the actual techical details, what I'm hoping for is a Titanium HD quality card with a better implementation of THX TruSurround, and hopefully one day Creative will put such a card in an external housing so that mini-ITX users can benefit as well. Obviously Recon3D fell short, aside from some users reporting that the TruSurround is actually pretty good.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2012
  7. Kaleid

    Kaleid Ancient Guru

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    Looks good, but I don't see any reason to upgrade from the current one, unless positional audio is much better than X-fi.

    I hope to see the 99 dollar card reviewed, complete with RMAA measurements (preferably not loopback).
     
  8. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    It seems you are right, the Recon3D has the DAC onboard, but its designed around a particular DAC which we can at least verify the performance of.
    The DAC used on the Z cards series is a better spec.
     
  9. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

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    It's irrelevant if these have integrated DACs in these chips. There's obviously a way to direct the digital to external DAC or these are different chips.
     
  10. IanM

    IanM Guest

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    How do you get to this conclusion based on the press release? because the press release says: "Studio-grade components, which include external digital-to-analog converters (DACs) that deliver 127dB signal-to-noise ratio?"

    Why did they write external? I don't want to think the worst but I wonder if there is some smoke and mirrors here - just because there is a good component on the PCB doesn't prove it's doing anything meaningful. Of course I hope that there is no shenanigans going on and there is a true upgrade vs the Recon3D, but Creative don't have a reputation for honesty or great engineering.

    At this point surely it's all speculation and we won't know for sure until people get the cards and do some proper testing?
     

  11. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    The Recon3Ds DAC has 102dB SnR, the Z series is 127dB.
    Different class of DAC, regardless where they put it.

    Why are you worried if it is an external DAC?
     
  12. IanM

    IanM Guest

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    I wouldn't have given it a second thought but for the previous discussion points I mentioned earlier i.e. that the SoundCore3D is what it is and can't be upgraded or bypassed, therefore the Z series might be no more impressive than a Recon3D - the same basic, relatively low quality signal from the SoundCore3D chip but passed through more expensive component(s) for no real benefit to the sound quality.

    I have to say the above doesn't completely make sense to me and the assumption that SoundCore3D cannot be improved upon may be wrong. I also find it strange that you would design a system that outputs an analogue signal from a cheap chip integrated DAC, then convert it back to digital just so that you can pass it through another more expensive DAC. Inuitively it makes more sense that the SoundCore3D is being used only for the DSP, in which case Creative's marketing people should stop prattling on about 'quad-core' processing, but that's another issue.

    I posted the question(s) in the hope that there is an electronics engineer/audio processing geek lurking who really understands how this works and can explain what's going on, and say which assumptions are right or wrong.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2012
  13. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    The 3D sound processor is connected to a higher spec external DAC.
    There is no converting to analogue and then back to digital.

    ps I'm an electrical/electronic engineer and audio geek :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2012
  14. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

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    Yeah, converting from the internal crap DAC->ADC->DAC would result in much worse quality than in Recon3D. They aren't stupid and would never do that since it makes zero sense.
     
  15. IanM

    IanM Guest

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  16. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    So its still a Recon3d thingy.. i presume no HW openAL and no ASIO just like recon3d?
     
  17. ROBSCIX

    ROBSCIX Ancient Guru

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    The term external is used IMO to denote, they are not using the lower spec'd DAC on the Recon ship itself.
     
  18. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

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    So, when are these supposed to be available?
     
  19. Tacoboy

    Tacoboy Guest

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    Last I heard is December.
     
  20. headoncollision

    headoncollision Guest

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    I owned a recon3d pcie card, sold It and went with titanium hd and external amp for headphone, but I mis say the recon3d had a great positional audio, the zxr looking pretty sweet, but the dac is the core of the whole thing imo if it ain't good then the sound wouldn't be that good, am never repeating the mistake I made with the recon3d, and the disappointment i got in terms of sound quality. so my next upgrade would be the xonar phobus or the zxr based on upcoming reviews after few months, really dislike the volume knod thingy, very unoriginal clearly copying asus approach, they should have sticked with the bay one instead or at least a different design.
     

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