AMD Mantle Graphics API Adopted by Various Developers

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Nov 4, 2013.

  1. pbvider

    pbvider Guest

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    It is a nvidia game.
     
  2. chanw4

    chanw4 Guest

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    I think Nvidia is guilty of both proprietary tech and pride. After all, Mantle and TressFX (the latest 2 AMD techs) are open-source or so.
     
  3. PhazeDelta1

    PhazeDelta1 Guest

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    Mantle isn't open source.
     
  4. chanw4

    chanw4 Guest

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    oh yea, you're right, only TressFX is then?
     

  5. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    It's not proprietary either. AMD has said that NVidia can use it if they choose to.
     
  6. Mannerheim

    Mannerheim Ancient Guru

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    Damn good for AMD

    nvidia owns 3dfx glide. Maybe we see 3Dfx2 glide soon :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
  7. Raider0001

    Raider0001 Master Guru

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    developers don't give a damn about DX - where is tessellation in BF4 ? - and now suddenly they will make something from mantle ? if they are upset about DX why they did not use opengl...
     
  8. applejack

    applejack Master Guru

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    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
  9. omnimodis78

    omnimodis78 Active Member

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    I've jumped through enough hoops to know that marketing hype and reality rarely align, so I'll jump for joy when hard facts demonstrate the outcome, until then, It's the marketing team at AMD that's doing all the legwork. I say this will an open mind though, that I open my wallet to what I like and trust, not brand loyalty - I care about the brand as much as they care about me as a customer. Zero.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
  10. cowie

    cowie Ancient Guru

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    hey omnimodis for a newbie that was pretty well said
     

  11. thatguy91

    thatguy91 Guest

    Developers upset? Seems it's the Nvidia owners that are upset... You know, Nvidia are open to adopt support for Mantle in the future (despite the necessary hardware changes), remember they can do so for free. This is not the same as AMD adopting Physx, because that too would require hardware change and Nvidia would charge AMD. Not only that, no doubt AMD would have to have Nvidia logos and stickers all over their products, whereas once Mantle is fully adopted it would most likely be known just as 'Mantle'.

    I think people that say 'if developers are unhappy with Directx they should use OpenGL', they are missing the point entirely. The issue isn't about Directx, it is about Directx and OpenGL. OpenGL on Windows has the same/similar performance deficiencies as Directx, so moving to OpenGL wouldn't really solve the issue. The performance benefits of Mantle isn't just a small amount, it looks to be a massive amount, you simply don't get that comparatively between Directx and OpenGL.

    The other benefit of Mantle is, even if it becomes widely adopted which I hope it will, is that it is more consistent between different systems. If Nvidia adopt it in the future, it wouldn't be the case of optimised for Nvidia or optimised for AMD, it will be optimised for Mantle. The biggest winner will be the consumer. Also, since Mantle uses the same shader system it will make Directx/Mantle support much easier.

    By the looks of it, it should also be a lot easier for the developer to support Mantle than it will be for them to support Directx, so although this still means developers have to have the game running on Directx/OpenGL and Mantle, it shouldn't take much more effort for them to do so. I don't know how much of Mantle you could run on non-Mantle specific hardware, I'm guessing some of it at least could... who knows? It may be possible to have a driver level Mantle interface and emulate the rest through Directx without taking a performance hit over Directx/OpenGL alone (since Mantle is such a boost), meaning game developers only need to focus on Mantle in the future. Possible, maybe; likely... no.

    At the end of the day though Nvidia users should be hoping as much as AMD users that Mantle takes off and that Nvidia adopts it, because it is such a benefit performance wise. This extra performance can then be put back into providing better graphics. Mantle's benefits aren't just performance though (like the Nvidia OpenGL extensions for SteamOS, which remember under OpenGL are open to AMD anyway), it is about better uniformity across different systems which leads to easier handling, patching and 'whatever else'! Snobbery that it was AMD that developed it really won't serve any purpose.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2013
  12. hasherr

    hasherr Guest

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    Mantle will be zombie (read: walking dead) tech just as PhysX. Not because its proprietary (phisix) or AMD written all over the place (mantle), but because its not needed. In case of physics, there are bunch of 3rd party physics engines, working on all platforms. In mantles case i say this: If u hate directx so much AMD, go and patch up OpenGL. Shiny new api is nice and all, but we cant just ditch well established technologies every few years, just to get some minor performance in very specific places.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
  13. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    I think you missed the point in mantle, even though its AMD specific for now.
     
  14. Yxskaft

    Yxskaft Maha Guru

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    Does anyone really think AMD would have bothered developing Mantle if the boosts are to be minor?

    Also, if AMD had used OpenGL with extensions instead, the hardware specific features in GCN still wouldn't have been available on Kepler cards

    Mantle can be important in many areas. It could allow games to work well on all future AMD APUs, as well as putting the pressure on DirectX and OpenGL.

    If the claims about improved CPU performance were true, it could also mean BF4 will run great even on Core 2 Quads once Mantle is out.
     
  15. 7stars

    7stars Member Guru

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    Dx and OpenGL are high-level API. Is it clear to you? Then, what does Physx have to do here with Mantle :confused: "it's not needed" I can say that we will wait and see... but i can't say now that it's needed or not. So, how you can? Maybe you have a "Crystal Ball" ? :roll: Furthermore, AMD states that developers have been asking for more at low level and it wasn't purely an initiative by AMD...so in your opinion are these false claims?
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013

  16. Ch0plol

    Ch0plol Guest

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    Well said, sums up my thoughts on hardware and software perfectly. Being a "fanboy" for a brand is pointless. If something is good then it's good, if it's bad then it's bad. (See console vs. console and PC vs. console arguments)

    I also don't care one bit about what the hype is until I see it in action myself.

    That said though, I DO think that Mantle is a great idea, and will be wonderful for PC gaming if it works as it is said to and is actually commonly adopted. I just wish that G-Sync (or a system just like it) were made available to everyone. This new trend of proprietary hardware abilities is somewhat worrying, as PCs are supposed to be an open system.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2013
  17. lol the way they are meant to be used..
     
  18. AlexKidd5000

    AlexKidd5000 Guest

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    As long as its cross platform, and anyone can use it on anyhardware, I'm all for it. Anything to get us away from DirectX. OpenGL, and Mantle should be the most popular API's in my opinion, ones a high level, and ones a low level, and both are cross platform.
     
  19. kapu

    kapu Ancient Guru

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    We all have to agree that DX is not very good API right now.. Its due that we have good alternative . Also i hope it wont be exclusive to AMD for long.
     
  20. Rich_Guy

    Rich_Guy Ancient Guru

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    Cryteks rumoured to be onboard.
     

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