5.1 Speakers + Sound Card

The output from a soundcard is like the output from a CD player, it is very low level and cant drive loudspeakers.
An amplifier is needed to power the speakers and to control their movement.

The amount of power you need is defined by the size of the area your speakers and you are in, the maximum loudness level you want and the speakers you are driving.
Some speakers are not very sensitive and can need over 10 times more power to get the same loudness as other speakers (and might not even give the same loudness if they arent powerful enough).
I recommend trying to get 91dB/Watt sensitivity speakers or higher.
The absolute minimum is 87dB/Watt otherwise you need a hugely powerful speaker and ampifier to get very loud.

Each extra 3dB sensitivity on the speaker will sound twice as loud, using the same amplifier.

 

Thanks. I will do some research and try to find something in my range.

 

Forgot to mention, sensitivity has nothing to do with sound quality but too low sensitivity means you can push the system hard so it sounds bad or is damaged easily.

Whatever you find, post it here so we can tell you if its any good.

 

Speaker need a way to get power, thats why it needs amp. The stereo setup I mentioned (two speakers) using active monitors would let you get audio from soundcard straight into speakers. Active monitors have amplifier(s) build into it (or two, three or so amps, for two way monitor one for woofer and one for tweeter, for three-way mid may have own amplifier and so).

Active monitors, no headache for picking the corrent amplifier. Some amps are harder to match with speakers than others, some combinations can make good amp and good speakers sound bad. Sure there are pro's and con's related to both of these setups, biggest con using active monitors is the cost to add few more speakers...

 

If going active, you must make sure the amp and speakers quality are good enough and the max output level is suitable.

Also consider that if you want to change the speakers, you need a new amplifier as well, so they arent as simple to upgrade later.

 

It's not that you have to check that amp is good and that speaker is good, just check the combination that it works as in test listen (or at least check reviews) the same way you would with non-active ones. Surely you are not going to blind buy (expensive) amplifier or speaker either ?

Not as simple to upgrade, how so ? Just buy new active monitor ? Will cost more as it has amplifier also, but I think it's simplier to upgrade as you do not need to check how well it goes with the amp you have.

 

Active speakers are generally not as powerful as an AV system.
He must make sure they will go as loud as he needs and that for the loudness, they are the quality he is after.

Are you deliberately being obnoxious, the obvious is obvious.
If he wants more power or better quality, its much harder to find an active set than it is to find an amp and speakers.
With active speakers he limits his upgrade options "substantially".
If he finds loudspeakers he likes, he cant just plug them in, he will need to buy an amp as well.
If he finds a great deal on an amp, he will need to buy speakers to use it.

Should he want to know if a speaker/amp combination will work well, he can ask here.
Most kit works ok together anyway.
The help he gets here will allow him to get a quality system that is good value for his money and leave his future options open.
Why pretend there is no help when he is getting it?

 

Which is why I mentioned that it's worth considering active monitors as a stereo setup as that money can not buy reasonable 5.1 set. I did tell OP to go test listen these at audio store, then see what he likes.

There are plenty of different active speakers out there, less than passive ones but still plenty. Those are not that hard to find.
As for the preamp, it's not something you must have in every case, loads of different loudspeakers will work well with consumer audio equipment (−10 dBV).

I'm not pretending he is not getting help here, I'm justing pointing out that amp + speakers is not the only option there is.

 

I have read everything here.

And I still say hands down, Receiver and Speakers and later down the line if you feel the need for a soundcard you can buy one (I doubt you will) as for a well spent £500 in the NOW.... there is only one choice IMO for a great PC/Movies+Games setup..

Onkyo TX-NR515
Or
Yamaha RXV373/473


Boston Acoustics Soundware XS5.1SE
Or
Jamo A102 HS6 5.1

I hear what people are saying and ON PAPER they have a point however I am telling you for around £500 when your sitting at home in front of your PC playing movies or games this setup will yield by far the finest experience and enjoyment with even a little future proofing buying a very up to date A/V receiver packed with modern features and multiple inputs if you ever needed more options - not to mention I think Onkyo use Audyssey room correction which is a huge added bonus, the Yamaha uses YPAO which imo is not quite as good however not sure if the new models use YPAO2, well the ones in that price range anyway this is all stuff to look into once you have made your basic route choice on here.

If you consider the Onkyo, if a little out dated my information may be, you will wanna pair with a fairly warm speaker set as I THINK Onkyos are quite bright sounding.

As I said decide on your angle on here but then for some fine tuned pairing advice pop to avforums and make a post there, they will be more up to date than me.

Muff has some strong knowledge but let me put it this way, I have £3000 worth of AMP and 5.1 Speaker package and I have zero interest in a soundcard, but my point is, as was his point also, you can always buy one down the line, first off buddy set yourself up with the best AMP and Speakers you can afford and you can start gaming and enjoying movies in great quality right away, load up BF3 and enjoy

And check second hand as well! might be able to get 50% more Receiver meat for the same price in perfect working order!!

 

Good advice given so far, just to add to the AMP and Speakers advice:

I can recommend looking on ebay at the stores that sell brand new for a very low price ONKYO/YAMAHA and also DENON are all good AMP wise. Then speakers, there's alot of variations to think of, it's not just this speaker might sound better than that speaker. Alot to evaluate

regards
RagDoll.

 

I am still looking for the AMP but found this deal on newegg for the speakers.
Do you think this sounds like a good deal, $299 + free shipping?

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882427009

 

You will be much better off buying second hand speakers so you can get more speaker for your money.
Speaker designs dont change a lot over time, so something thats 5 years old will still be very good but much cheaper for example.

The speakers you have chosen are very small in size which limits the frequency response.
It also limits the size and number of speaker cones that can be fitted inside them.
I'll explain why this matters.

An ideal loudspeaker consists of one loudspeaker cone with no crossover that responds to all frequencies.
This is very impractical in real life so the range of frequencies is split up between different size speaker cones.

A speaker cone under 'most' circumstances has a limited range of frequencies it can respond to.
You will find that most loudspeakers come with 2 or 3 cones.
The smaller the cones, the higher they can respond, but they cant go very low.
Adversely, the larger the speaker, the lower they can respond, but they cant go very high.
A 2 cone design generally wont respond very deep, a 3 cone design can respond deeper because the range of frequencies that can be covered is greater.

A subwoofer is used to take over where the loudspeakers cant go any deeper, but the subwoofer itself has a frequency range which needs to be considered.
In general a subwoofer doesnt have a problem matching with most loudspeakers, but they differ in how deep they can go (and in a few other ways).
In general, the larger the cabinet volume (and usually the larger the speaker cone and/or how far it can travel), the deeper it can go, the same for loudspeakers, fyi.

Small loudspeaker designs like the one you have chosen have one small speaker cone only or 2 very small speakers.
Small speakers do not respond very deep so cannot produce much bass.
The bass is dealt with by the subwoofer but due to the small size of the loudspeakers, the subwoofer has to respond much higher than is recommended.

Ideally you dont want to know where any of the loudspeakers are, they should disappear, giving sound that surrounds and envelopes you (for surround sound and some very good stereo systems).
Sound becomes more directional the higher the frequency and therefore less directional the lower the frequency.
When the same sound comes from more than one loudspeaker, it will appear to be somewhere inbetween the loudspeakers, so even though higher frequencies are directional, sound can still appear to come from somewhere else.

A subwoofer is a single sound channel and produces deeper bass that is not coming from other loudspeakers, so there is no placement of subwoofer bass sounds between speakers.
The danger here is that you will hear bass coming from the subwoofers direction, and this is true to a point if the system lets it happen.
Luckily, below around 60 to 80Hz no matter where you put the subwoofer, it sounds and feels like the bass is coming from all around you.
So ideally you want the subwoofer to only go up to around 80Hz maximum to make it disappear.

This means the loudspeakers you choose need to respond down to 80Hz.
The figure normally given for a loudspeakers response is its -3dB point. This is actually the point at which it gives out 1/2 as much power than it does at it peak (for the same power input).
If the figures given are -4dB or -6dB for example, then the speaker does not respond as deep, its a bit of a con. ie for -6dB they may be trying to make you believe the 1/2 power point is where it only produces 1/4 of the power!
So beware of the figures.

To produce down to 80Hz with a decent amount of power, you need a speaker cone that is larger than those in the speakers you have chosen.
Indeed, the specs say the response is 150Hz to 20KHz.
This means the subwoofer needs to respond up to 150Hz, making it directional.
This is assuming they have given the response as -3dB (they dont mention it).
If not, the subwoofer may have to respond even higher!


So for the above reasons alone, I cant recommend those speakers.


Another issue is that smaller loudspeakers cannot produce much power due to lower power handling and low sensitivity.
Those you have chosen are rated at 86dB, a bit low and they will definitely have low power handling so you cant compensate for lack of sensitivity by pumping more power into them, not without problems anyway.
While it can be demonstrated they can go loud, it will likely be with a lot of distortion which gets tiresome quickly and can damage the speaker cone or its crossover.

 

Thank you for the detailed explanation. I will look for used speakers and see what I can
come up with.

 

Again muff has solid facts on paper.

Again though muff, he only has so much money so sure you can always get better if you buy second hand although I would not very happy trusting second hand speakers.

Anyway Titan29 do not let muffs detailed explanation of crossover freq put you off the Jamo package, it is a fantastic package for the money and having owned it myself I can quite assure you 150hz Crossover is so BARELY directional that package is DESGINED for that, you really will not notice, it's in practice that counts, has muff HEARD this speaker package? probably not, have I ? yes, have what hi-fi? yes, and had many people on a hi-fi enthusiast forum? yes, did and do ALL recommend it for that money as an EXCELLENT package? YES!

The only thing I would say in 2013 is you CAN find better now for the money, that's all, a few years ago that was the 'GOTO' package that has changed now you need to find out what are viable replacements.

However muff is advocating trying for something even better second hand, nothing wrong with that, always worth a shot, just don't underestimate a good sub and satellite package.

And that link you gave by the way seems to link to the old model Jamo (no idea if the 2012 model is much better) - I would keep looking.

 

I've heard a ton of systems, many small satellites/subs and I can tell you there is a big difference going for quality decent size speakers.
I'm well practiced in selecting and setting up good hifi, I built my speakers, helped my brother develop a first order crossover system, was a pro singer, musician and have a degree in electronics, so I'm not messing about.
The system you are offering him is just about ok if you dont know what you can get for your money.

If you purchase decent 2nd speakers from someone with good feedback, you stand a good chance of a bargain.
I've just given away some Acoustic Energy speakers that are about 12 years old and are still fantastic.
My brothers loudspeakers are over 20 years old, he has fitted higher quality crossovers, ribbon tweeters and included them in a high definition setup.
Quality speakers can last a very long time.

I've bought many speakers off Ebay and only got scammed once.
That was because I wanted a specific speaker (Mission 754) and only came across one advert after months of looking.
(I replaced the bass cones as one was blown, £80 for the pair, added 20% to the overall cost)

Op, dont get desperate, take your time and choose who you buy from carefully, there should be a fair amount of choice.
Read up on some of the speakers you come across to get an idea of how they sound and how others compare.
If you have to buy a subwoofer separately, thats quite normal. Many speaker sets dont come with a subwoofer.

 

After a lot of research, I have decided on the following:

Start with 2.0 system and later expand to 5.1 down the line.
For 2.0, I am looking at bookshelf speakers plus an amp that can do 5.1 analogue input.
For bookshelves, HSU HB1 MK2 looks like a great deal.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/427380/hsu-hb-1-mk2-best-300-bookshelves-i-have-ever-heard

The max budget for bookshelves is $300-350 for the pair. I am open to suggestions that might be better and or less expensive for similar performance.

For soundcard, either Z or ZxR, still undecided which one though.

Also, I would like any suggestions for an AMP as well. $200-250 max.
Thanks