WDDM 2.2 in Creators update and drivers

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by Carfax, Mar 15, 2017.

  1. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    @ nevcairiel and siriq, thanks for attempting to explain SM6.0 in layman's terms and the benefits it provides. :thumbup:
     
  2. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    Wrong it will be backwards compatible, incl dx11 games. Boost for all.
     
  3. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Ancient Guru

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    - New intrinsics for PS and CS, turn into reduction of GPU overhead.
    - New intermediate language format, easier for GPU drivers to read and optimize.
    - Allows more different levels of compiler optimization.
    - Removes deprecated optimization which worked fine for older architectures only.
    - Allows third party developers to customize the front-end.
    - Will allow easier VULKAN-SPIR-V portability.
     
  4. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Ancient Guru

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    DXIL compiler will work for HLSL 5.0 and forward. But this does NOT mean you will get SM6 on DX11 games, this does mean developers can directly re-compile SM 5.0 HLSL shaders with the new compiler without change quite nothing in the shader code.
    SM 6.0 will work for feature levels 12_0 GPUs and forwards, for feature levels 11_0 and 11_1 is left to the IHVs will.
     

  5. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Ancient Guru

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    SM 6.0 will allows to reduce GPU overhead on pixel shaders and compute shaders. This will help to improve shaders performance (ie reduce the GPU-time, ie improve frame-rate in GPU-limited scenarios).
    Image quality has nothing implicitly to do with the shader model or the shading language used.
     
  6. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    Again, there will be no changes in code which doesn't use SM60. So no "boost for all". SM60 is an extension of shading language first and foremost and to make use of this extension you have to use the new capabilities explicitly.

    It is a performance optimization. You can think of it as of inclusion of what is known now as "shader intrinsics" into the core DX specs. Thus to make any use of it applications will have to be specifically written using SM60. There are other additions but they are more about evolving the DX ecosystem (DXIL) than SM60 itself.
     
  7. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    So, it looks like it's one more step in the direction on the path to Avatar like graphics on a PC! :banana:

    Now all we need are the 3D engines to go full DX12 and we'll have a party :D

    [​IMG]
     
  8. siriq

    siriq Guest

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    Console codes are sm6.0 (at least on XBox), pretty much. Less work and better performance while migrating codes .
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  9. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    Console code is GCN specific, it won't match DX SM60.
     
  10. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    In one MS article it said dx11 will benefit too, less overhead - potentially faster render, so not just dx12 specific.
     

  11. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    DX11 as in DX11.3 runtime using FL12_0+ target where SM60 will be available for use in shaders. Your renderer still need to specifically target this level in DX11.3 (which is Win10 exclusive btw) to take advantage of new SM60 features.

    It's a bit of a mess but do remember that you can use all of new DX12 shader functions in DX11.3 as well, including everything which is available in FL12_1. The different part is the DX12 runtime itself which brings stuff like async compute and ExecuteIndirect with it.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Ancient Guru

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    As fare I know, only the Direct3D 12 runtime has support for the DXIL shaders.
     
  13. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    Let me quote it

     
  14. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    That would be very MS like as in make no sense whatsoever while actually ending up being true.

    You can compile SM5+ shaders with a new compiler into DXIL. Won't mean anything for existing apps until their authors will do this specifically. I also have doubts about this leading to any noticeable performance advantages even if somebody would do this for an older program.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  15. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Ancient Guru

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    Any documented source? Because I am not aware of any technical compatibility of the D3D11 runtime with the SM6 DXIL format.Moreover SM6 will allow to target 5.0 profile and up, maybe there will be some 4.0 profile exception for the mobile segment.. but not the entire SM 5.0 profile set (which include all 4.0 and 4.1 profile and downlevel 9 profiles). Moreover, currently Direct3D 11 (last version is 11.4) does not come with functions for query the new SM 6.0 intrinsics support. But I confess I did not check in the Creator Update SDK preview since it requires a new preview version of VS2017... and I just migrated to the RTM of VS 2017.0...
    Summary: as far I know DX11 will stay with FXC only.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017

  16. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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  17. pipes

    pipes Member Guru

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    very lag for me in all section, management console, start menu and my computer folder
     
  18. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Ancient Guru

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    That's pure fantasy.
    On their source, which is in German, there is not written that Direct3D 11 will support it. DirectX 11 graphics stops at shader model 5.0. Shader model 5.1, is also not supported (ie: it is directX 12 only).
    Please note that some assertions on the MSDN library may be confusing or wrong about that (since it mixes HLSL 5.1 intrinsics with SM 5.1, which are different things...).
    But you cannot use SM 5.1 since Direct3D 11 does not provide any root signature interface to programmers (since it is based on a completely different shader binding system), nor it support direct indexing into shaders.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  19. siriq

    siriq Guest

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    Almost nailed it. That is why easy way to migrate the pretty much(not exact code) sm 6.0 codes (what i wrote before) from console. it will be disadvantage to nvidia, big time. Personally , prefer vulkan. Bindless and quiet east to add extra things to the api. Moreover , treats vendors equal. Well, nvidia still behind in vulkan as well but next gen will be better for it.
     
  20. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    yeah, when i googled extra I saw MS nowhere mentioning dx11, only it will have separate legacy 5.0 path, but maybe improved a little so it theoretically affects any dx11 game?
     

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